Did McLaren Screw Over JPM?

Snrub · 12 Jun 2005, 19:00 (Ref:1326492)

So what do you think on this issue? To me it seems pretty obvious that they did. They could have parked Kimi behind him and they would have left the pits 1-2.

What's the deal with the "red light" in the pits? I realize JPM ran it, but I'm not sure how it works? I'm guessing if he hadn't he would have ended up at the back of the field? If you factor that in it would appear that McLaren decided 2 extra points for Kimi was more important than extra points for the team, which seems contrary to their nature.

ralf fan · 12 Jun 2005, 19:01 (Ref:1326497)

Mclaren are suggesting that they called JPM first but he mis-understood the signal....and wen through....

anyway he jumped the red light his fault IMO... he couldve got second atleast...

**John Turner** · 12 Jun 2005, 19:03 (Ref:1326501)

Yes, according to ITV, Ron Dennis told them that JPM was called in first but did not hear the message properly!

flexible-flyer · 12 Jun 2005, 19:04 (Ref:1326502)

2 screw ups in less than a minute. both montoyas fault. drivers know not to race behind a safety car and drivers know that you cant exit the pitlane on a red light.

or in monty's case, drivers dont know...

Snrub · 12 Jun 2005, 19:04 (Ref:1326503)

So JPM didn't go into the pits when called? I suppose the timing was close, so that definately would have been his own fault.

The red light issue simply compounded the problem, but he obviously ran it.

Edit: I suppose it also depends on how/why he misunderstood. In that case it could have been poor luck.

Nicholosophy · 12 Jun 2005, 19:05 (Ref:1326507)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snrub

What's the deal with the "red light" in the pits? I realize JPM ran it, but I'm not sure how it works? I'm guessing if he hadn't he would have ended up at the back of the field?

That's exactly where he was meant to end up.

The rules state that when the safety car plus the queue of cars is passing the pit straight area, cars may pit but are not allowed to exit pit lane until the entire queue of cars has passed. The red light is shown at the end of pit lane and you may not pass it until it changes to green again.

I wonder whether the stewards will take a harder line post race, considering his incident at Monaco...

In regards to fuel, I think he got screwed. McLaren can say what they want after the race, but that is how it appears...

Xpunk75 · 12 Jun 2005, 19:07 (Ref:1326511)

I don't think he could have gotten even on the podium if he would have stayed till the light turned from red to green in the pits Ralf Fan. He would have ended up like behind webber technically in 6th or 7th and behind all that traffic. So he thought he just run the light i guess and argue his point later but I think he was angry about what happened at his team and just himself and he made a dumb move that cost the team even more points. People get on JV's case for dumb moves I think they need to take a look at Montoya who can't even follow basic traffic signals that we follow everyday. If that Alain Prost driving that Mclaren he would have never driven out of the pits and he would have taken the points he could because drove with his head and not his emotions like Montoya does. I was surprized he didnt stay out anyway and ingored the black flag but Montoya is not Senna I guess unlike how everyone wants him to be.

**Adam43** · 12 Jun 2005, 19:08 (Ref:1326513)

Missing the call his fault? Definetly? Really? He may just have misheard. It has happened before.

Second one. Yep, a very silly thing to do.

Menelaos · 12 Jun 2005, 19:10 (Ref:1326517)

JPM made a huge mistake with the red light. The rest is details. I think it's impossible McLaren sacrificed 8 points to give Kimi an extra 2, cause Kimi could probably pass JPM later on.

ralf fan · 12 Jun 2005, 19:11 (Ref:1326518)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpunk75

I don't think he could have gotten even on the podium if he would have stayed till the light turned red in the pits Ralf Fan.

He wouldve come just behind MS i think...so probably 3rd... i dont think he wouldve been behind Trulli and the rest....

Fantasy GP610 · 12 Jun 2005, 19:12 (Ref:1326519)

Sorry,but i think Monty is DC mark 2

as regards preference in the team.

Surely the radio convo's if they are recorded will show if he was called in first though........

If he ran a red light then no argument about the penalty.

ralf fan · 12 Jun 2005, 19:13 (Ref:1326523)

The thing is just before the safety car Kimi had reduced the gap from 6 secs to 3.9 in 2 laps..... so Kimi couldve won anyway...

Kraz · 12 Jun 2005, 19:13 (Ref:1326527)

BAD BAD BAD, running 1 2 then getting blackflagged BAD BAD BAD.

JPM will be under some intense criticism for this race.

Nonetheless I love watching him race, he runs hard all the time.

Nicholosophy · 12 Jun 2005, 19:14 (Ref:1326530)

Admittedly we haven't heard from McLaren or Montoya about the Safety Car incident, but it could be as simple as McLaren not mentioning on the radio that the SC was there, and JPM not seeing the red light (concentrating on other stuff perhaps).

I'm not debating that he made a mistake and should be penalised; he should be aware of all lights/flags/etc at all times. However, I doubt it was intentional or based on being angry/emotional - unless that's the reason he was distracted...

Xpunk75 · 12 Jun 2005, 19:17 (Ref:1326538)

No Ralf im watching on tape now cause I tape all the races i have all of them on tape from 1988-2005 its just something my dad did and i started doing, but back to the point. As stated above you have to wait till the entire train of cars goes by before the light is turned green so everyone who was on the lead lap would have gone by if he would have sat their. So really think he would have ended up behind Massa or Webber or inbetween them. Theirs no way he would have been ahead or behind Micheal. Maybe behind Ruebns and Truile or inbetween them but even still they were all part of that train that he had to wait to let by the pit lane before he could exit so he would have been way back their like I stated before.

**Adam43** · 12 Jun 2005, 19:18 (Ref:1326541)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickoGP

Admittedly we haven't heard from McLaren or Montoya about the Safety Car incident...

They spoke to ITV. It was a radio mix up.

Knowlesy · 12 Jun 2005, 19:18 (Ref:1326543)

Should McLaren not have been reminding him he had to stop at the end of the pitlane as a matter of course? Possibly. JPM should have known of course......although I must admit I didn't know about it! Pretty stupid and pointless rule really. Can't see any reason for it. It's especially unfair as it's not like IRL where each car has its own pit slot. SO invariably, one car in a team will be screwed over here.

As for the pit call, I must admit I have my suspicions over this. I'll wait until the full story is revealed before commenting further.

Sodemo · 12 Jun 2005, 19:20 (Ref:1326545)

When McLaren called him in, was the radio guy covering his mouth and saying "Juan (cough) come (cough) in"?
With Ron standing by saying "no no no, needs more emotion" etc?

Nicholosophy · 12 Jun 2005, 19:21 (Ref:1326549)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

They spoke to ITV. It was a radio mix up.

Are you referring to the call to come into the pits, or the red light/black flag incident...

Gt_R · 12 Jun 2005, 19:21 (Ref:1326550)

Not wanting to suggest more... could anybody show us the lap times between Kimi and JPM just prior to the safety car?

It seems coincidental that after Alonso retired, JPM who was blistering fast challenging Alonso, suddenly lose 1sec per lap for 2-3 laps, letting a 6sec gap almost disappear. I would have though Kimi sped up...but for one backmarker just ahead of JPM which JPM took an awful long time to catch...suggesting that perhaps JPM slowed down instead.

Team orders? I won't know nor be surprised. It would only be the sensible thing to do, when Kimi needs all the points to catch Alonso.

As for the "wrong signal"? I await more explanation and a look at the time sheets.

But for rejoining the race under a red light..JPM's fault. It's a written rule, and there's no way out of it.

The race took a nasty turn for JPM.

Knowlesy · 12 Jun 2005, 19:23 (Ref:1326559)

I found the pace thing odd as well Gt_R although I wouldn't read too much into that. I can't see JPM agreeing to that kind of thing!

Nicholosophy · 12 Jun 2005, 19:24 (Ref:1326561)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Should McLaren not have been reminding him he had to stop at the end of the pitlane as a matter of course? Possibly. JPM should have known of course......although I must admit I didn't know about it! Pretty stupid and pointless rule really. Can't see any reason for it. It's especially unfair as it's not like IRL where each car has its own pit slot. SO invariably, one car in a team will be screwed over here.

I think it's for safety reasons and to stop the arguements like which would have happened as to whether DC or JPM was in front when he left the lane...

I don't have a problem with it. And I wouldn't call it stupid and pointless. Last thing you want in a Safety Car period, when cars are meant to be going slow and not passing, is two or more cars racing out of the pit lane and trying to slot into a queue of cars going really slow. Who gets to overtake who and at what point? This rule makes it clearer; if you make the mistake of coming in later then that's what you live with...

**Adam43** · 12 Jun 2005, 19:25 (Ref:1326562)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickoGP

Are you referring to the call to come into the pits, or the red light/black flag incident...

The call to come in.

ralf fan · 12 Jun 2005, 19:26 (Ref:1326564)

All weekend Jpm probably had the pace to beat Kimi... and Kimi had some steering issues aswell...

it will be interesting to see the revelations about the whole incident...

Knowlesy · 12 Jun 2005, 19:29 (Ref:1326571)

NickoGP....in IRL, there are always issues with people overtaking wrongly under yellows. These are usually resolved before the green by race control.

The rule that befell JPM today is pathetic and needless.

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