Renault

[Ian Briggs]

Pat Symonds and Flavio Briatore have stepped down from renault F1 in the wake of the allegations that they asked Nelson Piquet jnr to deliberatly crash his car.

If Piquet had not got out of his car pronto then there would have been marshals in attendance.

Does anyone else feel a bit angry that thier lives are put at risk by cheats?

If the FIA find them guilty I hope that Symonds, Briatore and Piquet are banned from any form of motorsport for life.

[m1fcf]

Originally Posted by Ian Briggs

If Piquet had not got out of his car pronto then there would have been marshals in attendance.

But it is alleged that he chose that spot because it would bring a safety car out and was a distance from any marshal or recovery post. Therefore, wouldn't the marshals only have moved under a safety car, and not be exposed to any more risk than would normally apply in that situation.

the fact that he chose to park his car there, rather than end up there by accident is, in this case, irrelevant - the expertise of the marshals would have ensured they remained at their safest at all times.

[Ian Briggs]

Originally Posted by m1fcf

But it is alleged that he chose that spot because it would bring a safety car out and was a distance from any marshal or recovery post. Therefore, wouldn't the marshals only have moved under a safety car, and not be exposed to any more risk than would normally apply in that situation.

the fact that he chose to park his car there, rather than end up there by accident is, in this case, irrelevant - the expertise of the marshals would have ensured they remained at their safest at all times.

I dont have the layout of that circuit, but Marshals are generally spaced out around the track.

If Piquet did cause that crash then as soon as he lost control, as the words suggest he had no idea where the car would end up, as it happened it was against the wall, it could have been in the middle of the track, I do know that if he had not moved then certainly in the UK a marshal would have been in attendance as soon as possible.

Another thought. If a wheel had flown off in an unlucky direction..... need i say more?

[Matthews Dad]

Not really kept up with the allegations but heard on the radio that they had stepped down,

As Ian has described the situation I would have to agree that the only suitable punishment would be a life ban from all motorsport as i would not want to be the marshal injured or worse by the aftermath of an (alleged) deliberate crash

We accept that accidents can happen and do what we can to minimise the risks but risk is there in being in the vicinity of racing cars travelling at speed without anybody deliberately crashing

[fazza]

even under safety car there is an element of risk to marshals and recovery teams. At the britcar last year whilst the cars were filing round under safety car a corvette span just before where the medical teams were working and could have 10 meters further on would have been desasterous.

[Hepatic]

Ian, if Renault are found guilty then i'm with you 100%. i already have a dim view of the FIA's sanctions where our (and drivers, spectators etc) safety has been put at risk yet they did very little. Raikkonen's broken exhaust at Mangy Cours, alonoso's wheel at Hungry being 2 incidents that pop in to my head. I've actually volunteered for 2010 on the basis that they seem to be getting their act together after they black and oranged the BMW for a broken wing at Monza. (that and the cracking fun we have ) If they don't throw the book at Renault, even more so than the $100M and DQ they gave to McLaren, then what would that say about the FIA and their view of safety?

I await this verdict with baited breath. Shame Flav has gone tho, he's always a good source of entertainment. it sure puts Nelson in a different light too, to have gone thru with the plan was stupid but to stand up to Flav like that and blow the whistle must have taken some serious balls considering the implications on him as well as everything else.

[Lord Summerisle]

Originally Posted by Ian Briggs

I dont have the layout of that circuit, but Marshals are generally spaced out around the track.

ahh you haven't seen the wonder that is the Singapore circuit - Nelson crashed at a point where there are no marshals.

yes - no marshals.

it was 2 right handers around a spectator stand, the marshals where positioned on the outside of the circuit. Nelson spun around and crashed on the inside of the circuit, by the spectator stand. all there was, was a long concrete wall, and the solid debris fencing, with no gaps.

Nelson had to get out the car, and cross the track to get off the circuit. Had he been seriously injured and/or stuck in the car with a fuel leak/fire - it doesn't bear thinking about the marshals having to cross the track with bottles, between 2 blind corners.

quick links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6-qAzNDTPo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plN4kwplcZc

[The STIG]

I find it hard to believe that any team would be stupid enough to order a driver to crash...
I find it harder to believe that any driver would be stupid enough to do so...

... Unfortunately, Renault and Piquet are unbelievable.

Penalty... Take Renault's entrant's licence, and mince it. Then feed it to Piquet - with NO ketchup! He can eat his driving licence for desert, he wont' be needing that any more methinks.

[zakeriath]

Originally Posted by The STIG

take Renault's entrant's licence, and mince it. Then feed it to Piquet - with NO ketchup! He can eat his driving licence for desert, he wont' be needing that any more methinks.

The dear Boy was given immunity, so was Pat (wether hetook it or not hasnt come out)

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by zakeriath

The dear Boy was given immunity, so was Pat (wether hetook it or not hasnt come out)

Despite that, would you employ a driver who is a) not that good, and b) involved in a race fixing scandal in the past?

I wouldn't!

[SamWaters]

Yes it was very stupid thing for Piquet to agree to crash. But at the end of the day Renault is his boss, was he threatened the sack if he didn't crash??? I wouldn't be surprised.

Reenault SHOULD be thrown out of the championship as a minimum punishment for this. But will they though?

[Sticker Rub]

They won't be punished, they'll have done a deal with the FIA: we won't contest the case & get rid of the culprits & you give us a slap on the wrist on Monday.

[Mike E]

I was very disillusioned with F1 earlier in the year with all the stupid politics etc, and was just starting to think they had sorted themselves out when this came along. I'm really struggling to care.

[AndyT]

Originally Posted by Sticker Rub

They won't be punished, they'll have done a deal with the FIA: we won't contest the case & get rid of the culprits & you give us a slap on the wrist on Monday.

Unfortuneatly I think you will be correct, don't forget Flavio is big mates with Bernie. They own a football club between them.

[Bakersboy]

This is all about the conflict created when you mix mega bucks and big business in sport. Unfortunately what we do with passion they do for greed and until you take the money out of the equation that will always be the case. RIP F1

[PapaJuliet]

Originally Posted by m1fcf

the expertise of the marshals would have ensured they remained at their safest at all times.

No disrespect to the local marshals but, other than the Post Chiefs, my guess is that there were fewer than 2 dozen experienced marshals on the circuit, 4 from the UK and a couple of handfuls from Australia.

I don't think there has been any motorsport in Singapore for several years... the previous Grand Prix was a couple of decades ago.

The local volunteers did fine under the circumstances but I think we were very lucky that we didn't have any major incidents. I'm sure that some of them didn't quite know what they had let themselves in for. One marshal on my post asked whether she would have to run out on track saying "she wouldn't have volunteered [as a track marshal] if she'd known she might have to run out on track".

So I think that there might have been one of two reactions to Piquet's crash... either the marshals at that point would have been too "scared" to cross the track to attend to him, or they might have run across when it wasn't safe not quite realising how little time they might have.

PJ

[warweezil]

Originally Posted by Mike E

I was very disillusioned with F1 earlier in the year with all the stupid politics etc,

I got very disillusioned with F1 a few years back... then I started following truck racing... a few trips to Pembrey...... and suddenly Im wearing orange and being a small part of motorsport instead of just watching it. So in a twisted way - I give thanks for the egomaniacs that have dragged the sport down into the gutter - without that I might have still been a couch potato

But if these back street shenanigans are going to start spilling onto a live circuit then the FIA need to grow a pair and stamp down HARD on whoever is involved, no matter how "big" they are. The team are responsible, and remain so despite the selfless resignations of some of those responsible. Why do I expect another FIA fudge?

[greenbean]

if renault dont get a similar penalty to the one they gave to mclearn it will show double standards . they have already let them off one this year when the should of been band . they seem to have a complet lack of awareness for drivers ,marshals and spectators safety. if anything they should get a bigger penalty on a similar lines to the one given to toyota in rallying a few years ago

[Ian Briggs]

I honestly hope none of this costs any jobs in brackley, Renault are a valuable part of F1, but if the FIA find guilty I feel that a lot of jobs have been put at risk by 3 people.

[Hepatic]

hay, if they did fix the race they could face criminal prosecution much like we've seen with jockies in the past, and football. that's far worse than what anyone has been done for in recent times on top of the safety aspect. i don't see Flav or Symmonds having done this voluntarily and sadly sniff another ulterior motive. i think pitpass summed it up quite nicely with this pic > http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=39027

either way, almost all events i've marshalled at i've felt a huge warm feeling about how my safety is paramount and we'd do all we can to ensure that is maintained. from fellow marshals all the way to the clerks. if the FIA fail to deal with this adequately then i'm afraid a lot of people won't feel that at F1 events and who wants to be a part of that? They have to do what's right for everyone in motorsport from the ground roots up, assuming Renault are guilty of course

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by Hepatic

either way, almost all events i've marshalled at i've felt a huge warm feeling about how my safety is paramount and we'd do all we can to ensure that is maintained. from fellow marshals all the way to the clerks. if the FIA fail to deal with this adequately then i'm afraid a lot of people won't feel that at F1 events and who wants to be a part of that? They have to do what's right for everyone in motorsport from the ground roots up, assuming Renault are guilty of course

I think unless we get some life bans from sport here and apologies to the marshalls and other drivers for putting them at risk then the only message it sends out is the FIA dont give a flying about "the little people", the very same people who ensure this sport can run and they can make their millions. What if the Marshalls all refused to work at the next GP? Where would Bernie and Max and the rest of these money grabbing scumbags be then?

Im not a marshall, but I do race and without the dedication shown by Marshalls I would be at home on a Sunday with a playstation 'cos our fun is at the expense of your hard work.

[adstubbs]

I think/hope (delete according to level of optimism) that the safety implications of a deliberate crash will force the FIA to come down like the proverbial ton of rectangular building materials on Renault. Events in Hungary will not help them, as the WMSC may well take the view that would make it twice in 12 months that they have knowingly done something that jeaopardised the safety of their driver, other drivers, the marshals and the spectators at a circuit (3 times, if you count Alonso being sent out after a pitstop in Spa, only to be told that he needed to return to the pits because of damage to the left front of his car). I have no desire to see Enstone and Viry-Chatillon shut down because Mr Ghosn decides that this is the final straw and cuts the funding to the F1 operation, but at the same time, the FIA has to be seen to be taking this extremely seriously. On a lighter note, could be some interesting reactions to any crashes in the Clio Cup or Formula Renault this weekend!

[Asp]

I'm not sure exactly what options are open to the FIA - but I hope that Renault don't get the book thrown at them.
There's no evidence in the public domain that the team at large was complicit in what happened. And losing an entire team of the stature of Renault would be bad for the sport - not to mention the personal affect to all of Renault's employees.

Personal penalties, if possible, should follow, and be severe. But the team appears to have removed the root of the problem, and unless something comes out on Monday that implicates the team, I would hope that whilst the team's penalty shouldn't be light, the wider issues of their involvement in the sport should be considered.

Personally, I'd suggest disqualifying them for last year's championship, when the incident happened (and perhaps a fine equivalent to the TV rights money they would have received). This year, clean slate, and let's get back to racing!

[Shelagh]

Still trying to make my mind up as to whether or not to volunteer for next year's GP (did the 1993 Donington one, so .....). But this sort of thing just adds to the reason why I haven't done a GP since 2002, I have better things to do with my life.

[JimW]

The danger is not only to marshals; think Massa.

If true, then long, long ban for the people concerned and public obloquy for Renault (think Toyota and then multiply).

Regards

Jim