What about Spyker's GT programme?

[nobster]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Cut 'm some slack,lad...

When sorted out o.k.,these to cars are topfive runners.
It's not that the money isn't there,it's a time issue as Stephan2738 so rightly pointed out. I personally give 'm the benefit of the doubt,especially since I know what hardworking folk these mechanics in the Spykerteam are.

I have always been a big fan of the Spykers but you have to admit that the time issue you are mentioning is lasting a couple of years already!
No more excuses, as a fan I want results!

[Stephan2738]

Originally Posted by nobster

I have always been a big fan of the Spykers but you have to admit that the time issue you are mentioning is lasting a couple of years already!
No more excuses, as a fan I want results!

The time issue GTfour is mentioning is not lasting a couple of years allready. After the F1 adventure, Spyker was financially nearly exhausted. Spykercars therefore needed to be refinanced. That is not an easy thing to get done but luckily they succeeded. It was pretty close though...

The decision to continue to race in the GT2 class was made very late in december 2007, after the refinancing operation was completed. Offcourse the Squadron could have opted to enter the Spyder GT2R's for another year but decided, correctly in my honest opinion, to replace it with the laviolette GT2R. At that moment, late 2007, the development of the Laviolette GT2R had yet to be started. The Laviolette GT2R is not just a Spyder GT2R with a Laviolette roof, no, many new parts including the chassis had to be developed for this car.

The Squadron members worked almost day and night to get the car ready for it's first outing: the Le Mans Series testday at Paul Ricard. But time was running out and they choose to field the Spyder GT2R once more. It was not quite competitive, so the decision to go for the new Laviolette GT2R seems to be the right one. To make matters worse, this Spyder GT2R, which had some new components for the 2008 season, was burned to the ground at this test...

Next stop was the Geneva Motor Show where the Laviolette GT2R did make it's public debut. Only one chassis was ready, hence the car wearing both #85 and #94, #85 on the front and on one side and #94 on the other side. Time was in fact so short that after just one day, the car was removed from the show and shipped back to the factory so the Squadron members were able to finish it, just before the first Le Mans Series race: Barcelona. Against all odds it finished the race in an excellent 5th position, please take into account that this car had not been tested!

Still no time to rest, three LMS races in six weeks is no holiday at all. In 2007, the lay-out of the engine gave some reliability problems in the long-distance races like Le Mans. In stead of using the same engine as last year Spyker Squadron choose to develop the engine in order to get a better reliability and in order to become more competitive, a higher output as well. This proces ate some time as well...

The testday was indeed not a succes but it is understandable now why it wasn't: It's a combination between not having enough time and at the same time the huge amount of development the Squadron put into the new Laviolette GT2R.

Some people will call this unprofessional, I cal it being ambicious!

Nulla Tenaci Invia est Via - For the tenacious, no road is impassable

[nobster]

Nice words Stephan2738 but they have had engine issues from the beginning, have they ever had a troublefree 24 hour race or test? Everytime something has gone wrong and most of the time it was engine related, no matter wich type of car or year. Maybe be opting for a proven long distance engine they could solve a lot of problems there.

[The Badger]

Well , I suppose we should be happy that Spyker are there at all ..... normally a failed F1 opp has soaked up all finances .

Lovely car and Im happy to see it , and it can only get better . Love to see them take it to Porsche & Fiat !!!

[Marcel ten Caat]

Well said Stephan2738

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by nobster

Nice words Stephan2738 but they have had engine issues from the beginning, have they ever had a troublefree 24 hour race or test? Everytime something has gone wrong and most of the time it was engine related, no matter wich type of car or year. Maybe be opting for a proven long distance engine they could solve a lot of problems there.

This coming from a Jos Verstappen fan( ) ...
I seem to remember that "Jos the boss" had just about problems and excuses for every race and car he drove...allways going on about the team not putting in enough effort,the sponsors lacking in funding,his chef not paying him on time...

Again,cut this fine team some slack here! Remember they lead their class in the race for many hours in 2006. Nagging dutchmen,squeeling for results allways make me feel slightly sick... One should support them,no matter what.

As Badger so rightly points out,it's a right fine looking car,with a great caracter and for such a small team to actually BE at Le Mans AND give a good show is all we can ask for...

[GTfour]

Indeed well said Stephan2738

[Garp]

I'm afreight that nobster is right, they should provide some results,

But realistically Badger and GTfour are right.
It's a lovely car of a bunch of really hardworking mechanics.
And we should be lucky that it's there.

If only the Team Manager would get awake,
he had the change for years to build a reliable engine.
If he fails this year again, he has to admit to leave engine development/
building to the proffesionallists. (stop trying yourself)

And on the current chassis, they where not developed this year,
It's merely a GT2 Spyder with a roof and and the 2007 chassis.
Hence the engine intake, that still lacks the advantage of the Laviolette body.

But at the end I have to admit that It's a great team with a great spirit.
And we should admire their determination.

Come Spyker lets get lucky this year.

[nobster]

Originally Posted by GTfour

This coming from a Jos Verstappen fan( ) ...
I seem to remember that "Jos the boss" had just about problems and excuses for every race and car he drove...allways going on about the team not putting in enough effort,the sponsors lacking in funding,his chef not paying him on time...

Again,cut this fine team some slack here! Remember they lead their class in the race for many hours in 2006. Nagging dutchmen,squeeling for results allways make me feel slightly sick... One should support them,no matter what.

As Badger so rightly points out,it's a right fine looking car,with a great caracter and for such a small team to actually BE at Le Mans AND give a good show is all we can ask for...

Ouch, I am absolutely no Jos Verstappen fan, that hurts you calling me that!

[nobster]

Garp : you understand exactly what I meant, also agree with your last sentence - Let luck turn things around this year!

[nobster]

Originally Posted by nobster

Ouch, I am absolutely no Jos Verstappen fan, that hurts you calling me that!

But even I have to admit that till now he is doing a mighty fine job in sportscars.

[nobster]

[QUOTE=GTfour]
Nagging dutchmen,squeeling for results allways make me feel slightly sick... One should support them,no matter what.

I am not "nagging" here just a simple fact of adding up results.
As I will be cheering eveything that comes from my country at Le Mans I also will be chearing for Spyker, hell my wardrobe consists of many Spyker clothes.

Nagging dutchmen squeeling for results is not the problem, the dutchmen who think we dutchmen are better in all things are the problem!

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by nobster

But even I have to admit that till now he is doing a mighty fine job in sportscars.

SportsCAR that is then. To me,the reason that he's performing well has everything to do with the car and only a part by this snob...

[GTfour]

"As I will be cheering everything that comes from my country at Le Mans I also will be chearing for Spyker, hell my wardrobe consists of many Spyker clothes."

Allrighty then. I take back my "nagging dutchmen" responce and salute you for your enthousiasm.

"the dutchmen who think we dutchmen are better in all things are the problem!"

I fully agree with that one. Folk like this Mullerdude or De Mol figure should leave this mark alone...they've done enough damage.

[GTfour]

Doublepost. Please delete moderator...

[nobster]

Originally Posted by GTfour

SportsCAR that is then. To me,the reason that he's performing well has everything to do with the car and only a part by this snob...

Always thought the same about Verstappen but last weekend at le Mans he took all the time he needed to sign the photo's I took with me, maybe who knows, he can change ( let's hope for the better ).

[GTfour]

Maybe. He seems more relaxed in the sportscarscene.
Now let's cross our fingers he's not gonna fold up his Porsche in the heat of the battle...

[vandijk]

For those that would like to meet the drivers and crew before the race:

http://www.planetlemans.com/2008/06/04/meetspyker/

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by vandijk

For those that would like to meet the drivers and crew before the race:

http://www.planetlemans.com/2008/06/04/meetspyker/

Would really love that,but my agenda for these five days allready is so packed,that I'm afraid I simply don't have the time!
I sooth myself with the fact that we were able to give the mechanics a thorough interview at the Spa 1000km...

[Stephan2738]

Originally Posted by nobster

Nice words Stephan2738 but they have had engine issues from the beginning, have they ever had a troublefree 24 hour race or test? Everytime something has gone wrong and most of the time it was engine related, no matter wich type of car or year. Maybe be opting for a proven long distance engine they could solve a lot of problems there.

The Achillesheel of the engine are the chaindriven camshafts. This system doesn't seem to be reliable over the longer races. It's rather unpredictable as well, sometimes problems with this system occur in the early stages of the race, sometimes there are no problems at all with it during a race.

Spyker did finish one 24 hour race with the Spyder GT2R, which had the same engine. They reached 4th in class at the FIA-GT Spa 24 hour race in 2006.

Because Spyker races in the GT2 class, the engine from the production Spyker C8 Spyder has to form the base of the racing engine. I think that's quite a challenge. In the road car this 4,2 liter engine delivers 400 HP. If we compare that with a Ferrari F430 for the road, that delivers 490 HP...
The 4,3 liter Ferrari engine is decreased to 4,0 liter for the Ferrari GT2 racer and still delivers around 445 HP. If Spyker does decrease the engine capacity from 4,2 liter to 4,0 liter it might have only 370 HP. That's a deficit of 75 HP. No way that you are going to be competitive! So Spyker does not have much of a choice than to improve the power output. If you want your engine to deliver more power than it's likely that this will affect reliability...

You can change a few things on the race engine but certain components have to be the same as the production engine according to the rules. There were made quite some changes to the engine at the Spa LMS race however, so my guess is that they got dispensation from the organisers to make these changes...

For Le Mans however I expect the goal to be to finish the race and therefor the main focus will be on reliability. The altered crankshaft and firingorder will probably not be on the engine for Le Mans because these cause too much vibrations, wich are likely to destroy other parts. I hope they can replace the chain driven camshaft system with the more reliable geardriven camshaft system in time for the 24 hour of Le Mans race.

On photographs from the testday it looked like the airbox has changed so there might be a few extra horses onboard as well, that in combination with the changes made to make the engine more reliable does make me believe that at least one car should be able to get a classified finish.

That would be a well deserved achievement for the ever hard working Snoras Spyker Squadron team!

FINGERS CRSSED!

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Stephan2738

Because Spyker races in the GT2 class, the engine from the production Spyker C8 Spyder has to form the base of the racing engine. I think that's quite a challenge. In the road car this 4,2 liter engine delivers 400 HP. If we compare that with a Ferrari F430 for the road, that delivers 490 HP...

But Aston Martin Vantage V8 has 380 hp from 4.3 and 420 hp from 4.7. And still Prodrive thinks it can transform it into a GT2 car.

[Stephan2738]

Prodrive indeed think they can turn it into a competitive GT racecar. And they probably will but at this point they are also struggling with a shortage of power:

"Unfortunately our power disadvantage made life extremely difficult for Jonny to defend his position, as he was a sitting duck along the long front straight."

Quote taken from the Drayson-Barwell ALMS round 3 Long Beach press release http://www.barwellmotorsport.co.uk/c...H%20APRIL%2019

[gwyllion]

Yes, the Aston Martin GT2 is a new car and its engine is still in development.

I find the power of the road car version a bit irrevelant. Nobody beats the flatplane overbore V8 from Ferrari.

• Aston Martin Vantage: 380 (420) hp from 4.3 (4.7) -> 89 hp/liter
• Audi R8: 420 hp from 4.2 -> 100 hp/liter
• BMW M3: 420 hp from 4.0 -> 105 hp/liter
• Ferrari 430: 490 hp from 4.3 -> 114 hp/liter
• Spyker C8: 400 hp from 4.2 -> 95 hp/liter
• TVR Sagaris: 400 hp from 4.0 -> 100 hp/liter

[Stephan2738]

Porsche 997 GT3 RS: 415 hp from 3,6 -> 115 hp/liter...

I do get your point and agree that it doesn't necessarily mean that if you're down on power with the road car you can't produce a proper GT2 racer.

But since the race engine has to be based on the road going engine I do think the engine output of the roadcar is relevant. In this respect I do believe Ferrari and Porsche have a much better base to start from!

[AX lover]

Production engine vs Race engine

Porsche 997 GT3
3.6 (415 hp) vs 3.8 (465 hp)

Ferrari F430
4.3 (490 hp) vs 4.0 (445 hp)

Spyker C8
4.2 (400 hp) vs 3.8 (445 hp)