7.5 Ton Race Transporter Questions.

[Colin McKay]

Originally Posted by The Shrew

You shouldnt need a O licence.


As for the Tacho's all vehicles over 3.5T and a certain age will have them fitted.

Not quite - as soon as you put a car & trailer behind a just-under-3.5 tonne van it will need a tacho as the gross combination weight now exceeds 3.5T.

However, there is a loophole I forgot to mention earlier: my motorhome is taxed as 'private heavy goods', but under tacho rules it is classed as a 'living van' and is therefore exempt (I have no idea how a 'living van' is defined by VOSA or whether a truck with some bunks and a primus stove in the back would qualify). This puts me in the ludicrous position of not needing a tacho for a combination of around 9 tonnes & 16 metres long, but if I pull my trailer with a Transit (c. 4 tonnes GCW), I do.

There's another big however, and I don't think anyone has mentioned this on this thread yet- I do need an HGV licence (minimum C1+E) to drive this outfit, and so does anyone pulling a car + trailer behind a 7.5 tonner .

Gawd, what a boring thread!

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

Not quite - as soon as you put a car & trailer behind a just-under-3.5 tonne van it will need a tacho as the gross combination weight now exceeds 3.5T.

However, there is a loophole I forgot to mention earlier: my motorhome is taxed as 'private heavy goods', but under tacho rules it is classed as a 'living van' and is therefore exempt (I have no idea how a 'living van' is defined by VOSA or whether a truck with some bunks and a primus stove in the back would qualify). This puts me in the ludicrous position of not needing a tacho for a combination of around 9 tonnes & 16 metres long, but if I pull my trailer with a Transit (c. 4 tonnes GCW), I do.

There's another big however, and I don't think anyone has mentioned this on this thread yet- I do need an HGV licence (minimum C1+E) to drive this outfit, and so does anyone pulling a car + trailer behind a 7.5 tonner .

Gawd, what a boring thread!

only boring until one get's nicked !
agree with above, glad you remembered the motorcaravan exemption; as to HGV, you must be a youngster, if you have a car licence before 1jan97 then you have B+E and C1+E automatically so no HGV needed, as I said in post #19.

[Colin McKay]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

if you have a car licence before 1jan97 then you have B+E and C1+E automatically so no HGV needed

But I think this automatic qualification only allows a GTW of 8250kgs, not enough for a 7.5 tonner + car + trailer. If the qualification was gained after 1/1/97 then you are allowed up to 12000kgs GTW.

My brain hurts.

[GORDON STREETER]

You even need a test to tow a car trailer now(not everybody knows that) As has been said its whoever interprets the law, If you get stopped by the police it can be a whole minefield as I found out several years ago for allegedly being too heavy on the GTW. I fought the case with the help of a mate who is a top brief and won and was awarded costs !

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

You even need a test to tow a car trailer now(not everybody knows that)

Only above 3.5tonnes MAM (where 3.5t is maximum of combined car GVW and Maximum Allowed Mass [MAM] of trailer, and trailer MAM has to be below kerbweight of towing vehicle), though. Not everyone knows that, either!

I regret not learning to drive in '96 and leaving it to '97, as it's caused a lot of headaches working out legalities when buying tow-cars and trailers!

[Stuart H]

I've already got allthe hgv licences

[Tim Falce]

Don't forget that anyone who took their test before 1997 will have to take the trailer test once their licence comes up for renewal.

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Don't forget that anyone who took their test before 1997 will have to take the trailer test once their licence comes up for renewal.

Which Licence? HGV or car?

[JohnD]

Just looked at my licence (issued 1974) and I have the C1, C1E, D1 and D1E permits as stated above. Alongside each is a code:
C1E - 107 = Not over 8250kgs (as above
D1 - 101 = Not for hire or reward (also see above!)
D1E - 101, 119. 119 = Weght limit does not apply

Does that mean I can tow a Chieftain tank behind my minibus?
If I had one?
John

[GORDON STREETER]

Although the DVLA leaflets are not clear, they do say, (if you read it carefully), that not only upon reaching the age of 70 years, but also on the RENEWAL OF A DRIVING LICENCE, ( the first of the photo card ones are now starting to expire), unless you apply for, and pass a medical examination, you will lose driving licence classes C1, C1+E, D1 D1+E.

This means that, unless you apply and pass the medical, you will lose small lorry (7.5 tonner), Minibus of 9 to 16 passenger seats AND trailer combinations over 3,500 Kgm MAM (Max. Authorised Mass).

This will include many larger caravans and most horse trailers with 4x4 combinations. They are trying their best to get us off the road!!!!

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by JohnD

Just looked at my licence (issued 1974) and I have the C1, C1E, D1 and D1E permits as stated above. Alongside each is a code:
C1E - 107 = Not over 8250kgs (as above
D1 - 101 = Not for hire or reward (also see above!)
D1E - 101, 119. 119 = Weght limit does not apply

Does that mean I can tow a Chieftain tank behind my minibus?
If I had one?
John

You may have a licence stating that, but you still have to keep within the GTW TO BE LEGAL

[tim dodwell]

Sounds like it is time Road Saloons was re-born!?

[Colin McKay]

As this dull, dull, dull thread has now breached the 3 page barrier this is obviously an area of great concern - could we ask someone at the MSA to run an article in the mag to give us definitive answers to all these questions? Glancing round the average paddock, I doubt if half the transport is compliant. Or would that be inviting VOSA to take an interest?

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

But I think this automatic qualification only allows a GTW of 8250kgs, not enough for a 7.5 tonner + car + trailer. If the qualification was gained after 1/1/97 then you are allowed up to 12000kgs GTW.

My brain hurts.

The '7.5 tonner' relates to the total weight of the vehicle and load, so the vehicle, unladen, may only weigh 5 tonnes, say. Therefore '7.5 tonner' plus car and trailer, spares and passengers may still weigh less than 7.5 tonnes. Best put your complete rig on a weighbridge and allow for extra passengers carried.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

As this dull, dull, dull thread has now breached the 3 page barrier this is obviously an area of great concern - could we ask someone at the MSA to run an article in the mag to give us definitive answers to all these questions? .......lalala:

good idea, if only...
I don't share your optimism that anyone at MSA would have the slightest idea about all this

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

good idea, if only...
I don't share your optimism that anyone at MSA would have the slightest idea about all this

Agreed . On a slightly different note, I used to fit loads of side windows in different sizes of vans for customers and it was a waste of time asking the "powers that be"(at that time) how much extra tax one should be paying . After getting completely different answers I never bothered anymore and nothing ever happened !!

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by morninggents

The '7.5 tonner' relates to the total weight of the vehicle and load, so the vehicle, unladen, may only weigh 5 tonnes, say. Therefore '7.5 tonner' plus car and trailer, spares and passengers may still weigh less than 7.5 tonnes. Best put your complete rig on a weighbridge and allow for extra passengers carried.

I think this is closest to the actuality of the situation.

My DAF 45/160 7.5 tonner statistics are as follows:

Gross vehicle weight: 7490kg, Gross train Weight: 10990kg, these are on the ex MOD docs from time of purchase when I shipped it to Ireland. Vehicle is plated accordingly in both Ireland & UK. Now I am back living here & will shortly register it. When registering in Ireland I was obliged to put the truck on a weighbridge, weight 3820kg. I have now added a tail lift, so this, together with car 550 kg, various spares & equipment, say 250kg, driver/passenger 140kg, I will be well under the 7490kg GVW.

Always believed that my C1E licence allowed 7.49 tonnes for the truck and 3 tonnes for a trailer, so must check this trailer allowance - is this on the licence info sheet? Must also check on the big test at 70, but at that time I am hoping to have my man to do all the heavy work and driving.

Tacho fitted, but no needed for a private HGV - so I am advised. Not for hire or reward sign is not compulsory, but I would recommend.

I have been advised to avoid any signage which might create the impression of a commercial operation & attract attention for 'Operator Licence'.

VOSA are becoming quite vigilant and as someone else stated, there are many non compliant vehicles in the paddocks. We need firm guidelines here.

[Bob Pearson]

I think the trailer you can tow with a 7.5 ton vehicle without needing a licence upgrade is 750Kg gross weight, so total train weight of 8.25 tons.

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by Bob Pearson

I think the trailer you can tow with a 7.5 ton vehicle without needing a licence upgrade is 750Kg gross weight, so total train weight of 8.25 tons.

Correct - I have just checked the DVLA towing regs. Licence C1E covers the above. An upgrade to C1+E requires a test to enable one tow a heavier trailer. Appears the licence upgrade requirement was introduced for licences issued prior to 1997. DVLA towing notice 30 refers.

[Colin McKay]

Originally Posted by morninggents

The '7.5 tonner' relates to the total weight of the vehicle and load, so the vehicle, unladen, may only weigh 5 tonnes, say. Therefore '7.5 tonner' plus car and trailer, spares and passengers may still weigh less than 7.5 tonnes. Best put your complete rig on a weighbridge and allow for extra passengers carried.

I believe the regs now refer to MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass) which in the black & white days we referred to as 'plated weight', so it's not the actual weight that is relevant but the maximum permitted weight.

[Tim Falce]

After reading all this I think I need to have a lie down.Thank god I have an HGV and don't need to worry about all this.

[Bob Pearson]

Originally Posted by falcemob

After reading all this I think I need to have a lie down.Thank god I have an HGV and don't need to worry about all this.

I must admit this has really turned out to be a bit of a mind blower.

I think the best plan ( and certainly the one I pursue) is to keep the stickers off the truck, maintain a low profile and plough on.

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by falcemob

After reading all this I think I need to have a lie down.Thank god I have an HGV and don't need to worry about all this.

Agreed Tim, but its important to get these things right in an increasingly regulated environment.

With no racing, we are turning to more mundane matters - still there is the rugby to look forward to, national hunt season just underway & the whole world is going to hell in a handcart!

[JohnD]

How about, ""Equipe NotForHireOrReward Racing"?

[GORDON STREETER]

We've been through this towing regs n licence thing on various threads over the years,. Lots of people break the law every day without realising it, and if the law decided to have a clamp down they could probably find all sorts of illegal maladies with weekend towing vehicles. The real problem comes if you are involved in an accident as the insurers will drop you like a hot potato if anything is brought to light.