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Old 27 Nov 2016, 14:59 (Ref:3691413)   #51
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dsg should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddsg should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddsg should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddsg should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Well done Nico.
On most days Lewis maybe quicker but as a person he seems a little broken.
This year the better man won.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 15:02 (Ref:3691415)   #52
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Well done Nico.
On most days Lewis maybe quicker but as a person he seems a little broken.
This year the better man won.
It's good to see Lewis being magnanimous in defeat.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 15:13 (Ref:3691421)   #53
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Shame for Jenson's last race to go that way, very unfortunate.

Good to see some good manners going on on the podium, but it all felt a little awkward to me.

No respect lost for Mr Hamilton. He had the race win in the bag - when it's that close and still feasible you can't blame him for doing what he can to try to save his championship as well. And if racing has to be about going as fast as possible then shouldn't Rosberg have been more aggressive and trying to pass, if he was held up so much? They're all doing what they can to get the best possible result for themselves. Plus if Lewis had sped off into the distance with Nico a second or two behind him there'd have been even less 'racing' at the end than there was.

It's nice to see a different champion though, I suppose.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 15:21 (Ref:3691424)   #54
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as already said by others Lewis reacted in the way we expect a born racer should and full respect to him but this year i am happy Nico won next year we will see two world champions racing and perhaps the Red bulls and Ferrari might be closer
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 15:29 (Ref:3691426)   #55
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Motor racing is supposed to be about going as quickly as you can., not as slowly as possible so that you stop someone else, your own team-mate, winning the championship.

I have never hid my dislike for Hamilton,

Yeah, we can see that . It wasn't about stopping someone else winning a championship, it was about winning the championship himself. If you are so altruistic that you would willingly give up a championship without a fight, I take my hat off to you. But with that attitude you'd never win one.......
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 15:30 (Ref:3691427)   #56
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This is what Hamilton radioed on the penultimate lap:

Lap 54/55

Lewis Hamilton: "Right now, I'm losing the world championship so I don't care if I lose this race."

And it may have been awkward on the podium, but it is being reported that Hamilton totally ignored Rosberg in pre-podium room, not speaking to him at all.

Spoilt brat.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 15:33 (Ref:3691429)   #57
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What a farce. Vettel effectively protected Rosberg from Verstappen. He screamed passed Ricciardo en Verstappen on the new supersofts, but at the tail of Rosberg he all of a sudden couldn't do anything anymore even if Hamilton was driven two seconds slower than he could (I would've done exactly the same in his situation after such a season).

I wonder if it was a deal between manufacturer Ferrari and (German) manufacturer Mercedes or between Rosberg and Vettel? To me Vettel kept Verstappen from attacking Rosberg and then making no serious effort himself.

Actively not interfering with the championship battle is interfering with the championship battle as well.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 15:38 (Ref:3691431)   #58
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Yeah, we can see that . It wasn't about stopping someone else winning a championship, it was about winning the championship himself. If you are so altruistic that you would willingly give up a championship without a fight, I take my hat off to you. But with that attitude you'd never win one.......
Richard, I don't think that we will agree about this because the only way that Hamilton could win this championship, taking into consideration the track positions of both of them, was by making sure that Rosberg lost. And by doing that he would have also made his employers lose as well, which is why Paddy Lowe instructed him to pick up his pace. Which he refused to do!

I have a sneaky feeling that if Rosberg had tried to get past that Hamilton, then knowing that any chance of taking the championship would be gone, would have attempted to take him out. He doesn't worship his hero for nothing!
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 15:45 (Ref:3691432)   #59
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
This is what Hamilton radioed on the penultimate lap:

Lap 54/55

Lewis Hamilton: "Right now, I'm losing the world championship so I don't care if I lose this race."

And it may have been awkward on the podium, but it is being reported that Hamilton totally ignored Rosberg in pre-podium room, not speaking to him at all.

Spoilt brat.
I watched the pre-podium, post-race room goings on and there's nothing in that. The drivers were doing their own thing, as you would expect. Nico was getting weighed, Vettel was doing most of the talking and Bernie was standing in the middle of the room, breathing huge sighs of relief; you might have thought Bernie had just won the championship.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 15:53 (Ref:3691434)   #60
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And it may have been awkward on the podium, but it is being reported that Hamilton totally ignored Rosberg in pre-podium room, not speaking to him at all.
Stop listening to whoever reported that, because it isn't true. We watched it on TV and that didn't happen.

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What a farce. Vettel effectively protected Rosberg from Verstappen. He screamed passed Ricciardo en Verstappen on the new supersofts, but at the tail of Rosberg he all of a sudden couldn't do anything anymore even if Hamilton was driven two seconds slower than he could (I would've done exactly the same in his situation after such a season).
The Ferrari is faster in a straight line than the poor Renault engine, but not the Mercedes engine. That's been the case since the dawn of time, and won't change just because Vettel has nice tyres. It's easier to pass cars you have more power than.

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And by doing that he would have also made his employers lose as well
His employers were already winning both championships. They couldn't not win them, no matter what happened. 2 DNFs would've still given them a clean championship sweep. Let's not pretend that the whole season was on the line here. Lewis was just trying to win the championship.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 15:53 (Ref:3691435)   #61
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I wonder if it was a deal between manufacturer Ferrari and (German) manufacturer Mercedes or between Rosberg and Vettel? To me Vettel kept Verstappen from attacking Rosberg and then making no serious effort himself.
Tyres going off. Much more likely, I think.

Last edited by TrapezeArtist; 27 Nov 2016 at 16:07.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 15:58 (Ref:3691438)   #62
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 16:03 (Ref:3691440)   #63
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What a farce. Vettel effectively protected Rosberg from Verstappen. He screamed passed Ricciardo en Verstappen on the new supersofts, but at the tail of Rosberg he all of a sudden couldn't do anything anymore even if Hamilton was driven two seconds slower than he could (I would've done exactly the same in his situation after such a season).

I wonder if it was a deal between manufacturer Ferrari and (German) manufacturer Mercedes or between Rosberg and Vettel? To me Vettel kept Verstappen from attacking Rosberg and then making no serious effort himself.

Actively not interfering with the championship battle is interfering with the championship battle as well.
I did put my conspiracy hat on and wonder about that. I thought on more than one occasion, Vettel was close enough to pass Rosberg but didn't.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 16:03 (Ref:3691441)   #64
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Shame for Jenson's last race to go that way, very unfortunate.

Good to see some good manners going on on the podium, but it all felt a little awkward to me.

No respect lost for Mr Hamilton. He had the race win in the bag - when it's that close and still feasible you can't blame him for doing what he can to try to save his championship as well. And if racing has to be about going as fast as possible then shouldn't Rosberg have been more aggressive and trying to pass, if he was held up so much? They're all doing what they can to get the best possible result for themselves. Plus if Lewis had sped off into the distance with Nico a second or two behind him there'd have been even less 'racing' at the end than there was.

It's nice to see a different champion though, I suppose.


It's not just a case of "motor racing is about going fast". Winning a championship is about getting more points than the rest. That's was Lewis was trying to do, but in the end Eric did it.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 16:07 (Ref:3691444)   #65
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It's not just a case of "motor racing is about going fast". Winning a championship is about getting more points than the rest. That's was Lewis was trying to do, but in the end Eric did it.
Eric?
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 16:10 (Ref:3691447)   #66
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Motor racing is supposed to be about going as quickly as you can., not as slowly as possible so that you stop someone else, your own team-mate, winning the championship.

I have never hid my dislike for Hamilton, having initially thought that he was a breath of fresh air, but his performance today was a new low. And I don't think that he impressed his bosses, either. Especially after his comments on Thursday about the change around in personnel at the beginning of this year.

Maybe Rosberg did luck into this championship, but he has been pretty steady (apart from a couple of incidents) and consistent throughout the season. And if this knocks Hamilton down a peg or two, so much the better.
Ronnie Peterson and Gilles Villenerve went fast. Alain Prost went as fast as he needed to discuss....
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 16:10 (Ref:3691448)   #67
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The Ferrari is faster in a straight line than the poor Renault engine, but not the Mercedes engine. That's been the case since the dawn of time, and won't change just because Vettel has nice tyres. It's easier to pass cars you have more power than.
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Tyres going off. Much more likely, I think.
Both valid points, but I still think his motivation to pass Rosberg was very limited compared to Ricciardo and Verstappen.

Although I'll concede that this time I was cheering for Hamilton because he was doing a brilliant job with doing the only thing he could to win the championship bar ramming Rosberg off the track. Bit naive of Mercedes to expect him to just bent over. They should've agreed to let them race before the start and not repeatedly interfere with a title fight, as everyone knew exactly what was going on.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 16:19 (Ref:3691453)   #68
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Motor racing is supposed to be about going as quickly as you can., not as slowly as possible so that you stop someone else, your own team-mate, winning the championship.

I have never hid my dislike for Hamilton, having initially thought that he was a breath of fresh air, but his performance today was a new low. And I don't think that he impressed his bosses, either.
Maybe I'm too much of a altruist but I totally agree with this comment on Hamilton's behaviour. On a day when a two, true sportsmen retire from F1 I have to ask myself whether Button for instance would have driven in the way that Hamilton did had he been leading the race, I think not because Button has dignity and grace, Hamilton has none.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 16:27 (Ref:3691459)   #69
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Eric?
His middle name. Though I spelt it wrong: Erik.

Eric the Racing Driver.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 16:30 (Ref:3691462)   #70
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His middle name. Though I spelt it wrong: Erik.

Eric the Racing Driver.
Has a nice ring to it.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 16:32 (Ref:3691463)   #71
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The Podium.

No, not the personal interaction (lack of). I was thinking of the bloke who gave the trophies to the wrong men. And the total lack of fizz in whatever passes for champagne in Abby Dabby.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 16:51 (Ref:3691468)   #72
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Congratulations Nico! Well done! Lewis, great driving this season, but sorry it just didn't go your way.

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What a farce. Vettel effectively protected Rosberg from Verstappen. He screamed passed Ricciardo en Verstappen on the new supersofts, but at the tail of Rosberg he all of a sudden couldn't do anything anymore even if Hamilton was driven two seconds slower than he could (I would've done exactly the same in his situation after such a season).

I wonder if it was a deal between manufacturer Ferrari and (German) manufacturer Mercedes or between Rosberg and Vettel? To me Vettel kept Verstappen from attacking Rosberg and then making no serious effort himself.

Actively not interfering with the championship battle is interfering with the championship battle as well.
Insert roll eyes here, particularly on the conspiracy part...

Verstappen was clearly giving it his all to maintain position and didn't challenge after passed by Vettel. So that was maybe a much easier pass (not that it was easy!) than Vettel making a pass work on Rosber or Hamilton. Regardless Vettel did make one hard run on Rosberg and in reality Rosberg would have been smart to give the position up, but... didn't. I suspect Vettel felt Rosberg was unlikely to make it easy and settled for third. It's not like it was Vettel's position for the taking! On the podium Vettel mentioned his tires were doing off as well. Lastly... if he had crashed Rosberg out of the WDC just for one position (including risking a solid third place), and somewhat being a pawn in Hamilton's driving slow game... who would want that hanging on their neck.

And I want to say much respect for Nico for not taking the easy out. He could have let Vettel past, but he was racing for position and wanted to win on his own terms. I suspect if an opportunity to pass Hamilton had presented itself, he may have have taken that risk as well?

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...but it is being reported that Hamilton totally ignored Rosberg in pre-podium room, not speaking to him at all.
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I watched the pre-podium, post-race room goings on and there's nothing in that. The drivers were doing their own thing, as you would expect. Nico was getting weighed, Vettel was doing most of the talking and Bernie was standing in the middle of the room, breathing huge sighs of relief; you might have thought Bernie had just won the championship.
IMHO, you are both right (maybe not on the spoiled brat comment I didn't quote). Lewis and Nico were pretty much avoiding/ignoring each other. I think it would have been unusual to see it otherwise. Sure it would have been nice if they were chummy, but Lewis just lost a championship (of which he likely feels due to no fault of his own) and Nico while the winner had just had things about yanked from under him by late race gamesmanship from Lewis by him slowing so much on purpose.

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Lewis did all he could. Think the team should have butted out.......If Nico was faster, why didn't he overtake?

Good of Vettel to spice it up.

Excellent recovery by Max, of course.
As to why Nico didn't overtake Lewis, I think Lewis had enough pace to prevent that (or at least reduce the potential for success). He would run slower in places that would slow Nico and allow others to catch up, but were not good passing opportunities for Nico and then run quicker in areas that might be a place Nico could setup to pass. It was hard to decipher, but I think one radio comment from Nico said about as much. I do agree the team was too much involved.

Personally I think Lewis dodged a bullet on how this played out. IF... the drive slow strategy had worked out (legal to the rules, maybe not very sporting) and it caused Nico to crash out or loose two positions, it would be a stain on him that would have always be remembered and talked about (particuarly from those who don't care for him) for a long time.

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Old 27 Nov 2016, 16:53 (Ref:3691469)   #73
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What a farce. Vettel effectively protected Rosberg from Verstappen. He screamed passed Ricciardo en Verstappen on the new supersofts, but at the tail of Rosberg he all of a sudden couldn't do anything anymore even if Hamilton was driven two seconds slower than he could (I would've done exactly the same in his situation after such a season).
Apart from his tires who had probably lost the advantage that they offered earlier, Nico was now so close to Hamilton that he had DRS too, so I think the Ferrari had no more advantage over the Mercedes.


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As to why Nico didn't overtake Lewis, I think Lewis had enough pace to prevent that (or at least reduce the potential for success). He would run slower in places that would slow Nico and allow others to catch up, but were not good passing opportunities for Nico and then run quicker in areas that might be a place Nico could setup to pass.
That's exactly what Nico said in the post-race interviews: Lewis did he did perfectly: flat out in sector 1 to make sure Nico never quite got in DRS-range where it mattered and slow down in the slower parts where you couldn't overtake anyway.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 17:33 (Ref:3691482)   #74
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sparkione should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsparkione should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsparkione should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
[QUOTE=Mike Harte;3691431]Richard, I don't think that we will agree about this because the only way that Hamilton could win this championship, taking into consideration the track positions of both of them, was by making sure that Rosberg lost. And by doing that he would have also made his employers lose as well, which is why Paddy Lowe instructed him to pick up his pace. Which he refused to do!]

And quite right, too. It was unwarranted interference by the team in a race for the ultimate prize in F1. They had already won the constructors' title and were assured of the drivers', too, whoever won. They wanted a 1-2, Lewis wanted a 1-4, and he was in the driving seat – literally and metaphorically. Any proper racer would have done the same, period.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 17:53 (Ref:3691484)   #75
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justracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridjustracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
Richard, I don't think that we will agree about this because the only way that Hamilton could win this championship, taking into consideration the track positions of both of them, was by making sure that Rosberg lost. And by doing that he would have also made his employers lose as well, which is why Paddy Lowe instructed him to pick up his pace. Which he refused to do!]

And quite right, too. It was unwarranted interference by the team in a race for the ultimate prize in F1. They had already won the constructors' title and were assured of the drivers', too, whoever won. They wanted a 1-2, Lewis wanted a 1-4, and he was in the driving seat – literally and metaphorically. Any proper racer would have done the same, period.
All I would add is that in my view Hamilton's actions did nothing for his dignity or respect from a sporting perspective. Somewhat reminds me of 2 certain other world champions, one Brazilian and one German.
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