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Old 27 Nov 2016, 18:14 (Ref:3691495)   #76
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spider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridspider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Congrats to Nico.

Lewis lacks so much class. His behaviour after was utterly childish / unsportsmanlike, again - and I thought Nico handled it extremely well.

I agree totally with Lewis' tactics during the race - but he really lacked the nous to execute that backing-up well enough - and again, Nico handled his race today, supremely.

Nico, for someone not in the 'A' grade category, had a fantastic season. Top work by him - maximised his ability to bag this.

Watching the press conference - he really was humbled.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 18:15 (Ref:3691496)   #77
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Motor racing is supposed to be about going as quickly as you can., not as slowly as possible so that you stop someone else, your own team-mate, winning the championship.

I have never hid my dislike for Hamilton, having initially thought that he was a breath of fresh air, but his performance today was a new low. And I don't think that he impressed his bosses, either. Especially after his comments on Thursday about the change around in personnel at the beginning of this year.

Maybe Rosberg did luck into this championship, but he has been pretty steady (apart from a couple of incidents) and consistent throughout the season. And if this knocks Hamilton down a peg or two, so much the better.
I completely disagree. He did what he had to do and didn't just roll over. I would have expected anyone in the position where there was still a slight chance of winning the title to do the same. The team should have butted out. If Rosberg could have gone faster he should have tried to overtake Hamilton.

Personally I didn't see any behaviour after the race for which Lewis deserves criticism.


Congratulations to Nico though, over the season he deserves it.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 18:32 (Ref:3691500)   #78
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Interesting comments, particularly from those who smell some sort of conspiracy between Vettel, Rosberg and anyone not named Hamilton to ensure NR won the WDC.

I am not a big fan of either Merc driver. That said, Nico clearly got tired of finishing second in the WDC and did what he needed to personally and professionally to win it. Is Lewis the more talented of the two? Clearly. Is talent all that you need to win the WDC? No. Some supremely talented drivers have competed in F1 and not even gotten a sniff of the level of success needed. Champions find that extra 1%. Maybe Lewis will learn something from this.

As far as MB asking Lewis to pedal faster, they pay the bills, don't they? They provide the cars that are the class of the field and that takes a lot of time, commitment and dosh. Watching your investment go more and more slowly is in my view not only aggravating but also insulting to all those who worked their tails off to build the fastest car on the grid.

A second part to this is Lewis' admiration for Senna. Senna had no problems running people off the track in part because he thought God had mandated that he would win. Ask Alain Prost about that...In any event had Nico caught Lewis how aggressive might Lewis have been in "defending" the position? The Nightmare Scenario for MB would have been some variation of Lewis punting Nico into the tullies ala Senna and sashaying off to Win Triumphantly or taking them both out and making the team look like a bunch of prats.

Should be a fun season next year particularly if MB is no longer at the top of the Technological Heap.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 18:37 (Ref:3691501)   #79
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As far as MB asking Lewis to pedal faster, they pay the bills, don't they? They provide the cars that are the class of the field and that takes a lot of time, commitment and dosh. Watching your investment go more and more slowly is in my view not only aggravating but also insulting to all those who worked their tails off to build the fastest car on the grid.
.

No, not for me. You ask the other half of your driver investment to go faster. They professed that they wouldn't interfere in the contest between their two drivers, and then sought to do exactly that, in the knowledge that they would be handing it to Nico on a plate. For my money, Lewis did exactly what he should have done. To suggest that Lewis would have run Nico off the road just because of his admiration of Senna is patently unfair.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 18:44 (Ref:3691502)   #80
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No, not for me. You ask the other half of your driver investment to go faster. They professed that they wouldn't interfere in the contest between their two drivers, and then sought to do exactly that, in the knowledge that they would be handing it to Nico on a plate. For my money, Lewis did exactly what he should have done.
You do?? Why does the responsibility fall on Nico? He's ahead in the WDC. He has his car in second. Strategically speaking going for the race win is actually a mistake and in view of the willingness on both drivers part to punt the other asking Nico to pick up the pace whilst leaving Lewis out there to scheme his way around the track independently seems a bit unfair.

Going a bit further, which WDC of the past would you imagine slowing down as a last ditch effort to get others to do the work for you? Michael? Either Hill? Stewart? Senna? Prost? Mansell?Fangio? Clark?

My bottom line is that after the management spends $400 per season to put together a car the expectation of the driver is to peddle it as fast as they can and as an employee of said organization to mind the request to "race" rather than to find some way to get someone else to race Nico.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 19:03 (Ref:3691507)   #81
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I'm pretty sure that Lewis would have punted Niko of the track if it meant that he won the WDC. It was basically win at all cost today.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 19:07 (Ref:3691509)   #82
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I'm not comparing it with anything or anyone else. I'm looking at it from the point of view of a driver who could still win the WDC. We all know that Hamilton could have driven off way into the distance and Rosberg would have cruised serenely to his unchallenged second place. Personally, knowing that there was a strategic way to still be in with a chance, I would have been disappointed if a racing driver with that chance didn't have a go at it. And I still believe his team was totally wrong to interfere. They had already cruised the Constructors champion and one of their drivers was going to win the WDC. They knew what he was doing and his tactic was wholly understandable.

We're not going to agree on this because my view is polarised on the driver - this driver - not any driver of the past.

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I'm pretty sure that Lewis would have punted Niko of the track if it meant that he won the WDC. It was basically win at all cost today.
I think that is complete nonsense with absolutely no basis in fact. There was no win at any cost displayed at all - he adopted the only legitimate - and completely fair - strategy that he could. Stretching that to punting the other driver off - and probably having the win taken from him anyway - is absurd.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 19:09 (Ref:3691510)   #83
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I'm pretty sure that Lewis would have punted Niko of the track if it meant that he won the WDC. It was basically win at all cost today.
I'm sure that Nico thought the same and decided to go slower than a slow Lewis !
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 19:19 (Ref:3691513)   #84
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Personally, knowing that there was a strategic way to still be in with a chance, I would have been disappointed if a racing driver with that chance didn't have a go at it. And I still believe his team was totally wrong to interfere. They had already cruised the Constructors champion and one of their drivers was going to win the WDC. They knew what he was doing and his tactic was wholly understandable.
i agree, ayse - racing isn't just racing to the flag when you're dealing with a championship. i think any of the drivers we consider great champions would have done the same thing.

i think the right man won the title and lewis' season will be remembered for the biblical fightback, and how he brought the challenge to rosberg right up until the last chequered flag. rosberg's should be remembered for beating that fightback, and prevailing regardless. that's quite some achievement.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 19:24 (Ref:3691514)   #85
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i agree, ayse - racing isn't just racing to the flag when you're dealing with a championship. i think any of the drivers we consider great champions would have done the same thing.

i think the right man won the title and lewis' season will be remembered for the biblical fightback, and how he brought the challenge to rosberg right up until the last chequered flag. rosberg's should be remembered for beating that fightback, and prevailing regardless. that's quite some achievement.
Yep, spot on.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 19:24 (Ref:3691515)   #86
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Niko beat arguably the most talented driver in F1 ... in the same machinery. A spectacular result for Niko
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 19:28 (Ref:3691517)   #87
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Niko beat arguably the most talented driver in F1 ... in the same machinery. A spectacular result for Niko
Over the season, indeed so. I confess I never thought Rosberg would beat Hamilton in an equal car over a season - it'll be interesting to see what happens next season - when Mercedes could well be a lot more beatable than this season.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 20:04 (Ref:3691525)   #88
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Personally I didn't see any behaviour after the race for which Lewis deserves criticism.
I watched the race on Channel 4, and in the interview afterwards with Lee (I think?), the answers weren't very classy.

"I couldn't let the dude get the championship" or similar.
Coulthard, Webber and Jordan also were not impressed or found that a bit so-so at best.

Other than that, in the race he did exactly what I expected him to, and surely Mercedes and Rosberg were not surprised either.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 20:15 (Ref:3691526)   #89
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Lewis Hamilton wears his heart on his sleeve, Nico is more of a robot in my opinion..
For a robot, he was pretty emotional afterwards, showing feelings of an almost human nature (*)

Of course, they may have hired an actor to play that part.
Or maybe that was the real Nico, and they hired a stand-in to the driving thing...





(*) OK, I stole that line
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 20:18 (Ref:3691527)   #90
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Hamilton should have started to back up Rosberg earlier if that was the game he was going to play. He did it just far too late with too few laps remaining.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 20:31 (Ref:3691531)   #91
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Hamilton should have started to back up Rosberg earlier if that was the game he was going to play. He did it just far too late with too few laps remaining.
But he couldn't do it before the final stop as the team would have stopped Nico first.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 21:33 (Ref:3691544)   #92
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Pleased that both Rosberg and Hamilton now have their World Titles, maybe they'll be more relaxed around each other now.

What appalled me, was that two Ferrari's and two Red Bull's, being driven at full race pace, still couldn't beat two Merc's that were literally cruising around. Hamilton couldn't have gone any slower yet he still won at a canter.

Next year better offer more than this......Merc must have the biggest performance advantage since the Lotus 79 first appeared.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 21:51 (Ref:3691547)   #93
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What appalled me, was that two Ferrari's and two Red Bull's, being driven at full race pace, still couldn't beat two Merc's that were literally cruising around. Hamilton couldn't have gone any slower yet he still won at a canter
The race track isn't helping.

Hamilton was slow, but he was only slow on parts where you couldn't overtake.
He was fast in the first section until after the straights, to make sure Rosberg never had a chance to overtake him.
Consequently, Rosberg was slow on the same parts but could be fast on the parts where one could overtake, thus not giving any chance to his pursuers either.

Once in the Hamilton queue, everyone was slow.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 22:28 (Ref:3691555)   #94
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i agree, ayse - racing isn't just racing to the flag when you're dealing with a championship. i think any of the drivers we consider great champions would have done the same thing.

i think the right man won the title and lewis' season will be remembered for the biblical fightback, and how he brought the challenge to rosberg right up until the last chequered flag. rosberg's should be remembered for beating that fightback, and prevailing regardless. that's quite some achievement.
While I agree with para 2, I have difficulties imagining Michael, Senna or Fangio lapping what, 6 seconds slower than pole in order to win the WDC.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 22:29 (Ref:3691557)   #95
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Niko beat arguably the most talented driver in F1 ... in the same machinery. A spectacular result for Niko
He just put his head down and got it done. Spectacular result from spectacular commitment.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 22:32 (Ref:3691558)   #96
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The race track isn't helping.

Hamilton was slow, but he was only slow on parts where you couldn't overtake.
He was fast in the first section until after the straights, to make sure Rosberg never had a chance to overtake him.
Consequently, Rosberg was slow on the same parts but could be fast on the parts where one could overtake, thus not giving any chance to his pursuers either.

Once in the Hamilton queue, everyone was slow.
Yup. A hairpin into a hairpin does not create an overtaking opportunity. Basic track design. The car in front will always be on the throttle earlier. You need a medium or medium fast corner before a long straight to create passing.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 22:34 (Ref:3691559)   #97
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ultimately LH still finished the race faster than anyone else so I can't really look down on him for the unorthadox strategy.

While I understand the argument against this strategy, sport isn't always about who is fastest, who is strongest, who scores the most. craft is after all short for crafty.

If LH had made it work and forced Nico into a mistake then this would be a very different discussion...rather the only reason he looks like a heel is perhaps because he failed to make it work.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 22:53 (Ref:3691562)   #98
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Let's look at this from a different angle...What did anyone lose or gain from Lewis's tactics? If they had worked, and Nico had been beaten by Vettel or Max or both, Merc would have lost a few points. But they had already won the Constructors' title by a country mile and were guaranteed a WDC as well, either way.

We, on the other hand, were granted the excitement of seeing the title in the balance right up to the flag. If Lew had driven off into the distance – as he clearly could have done – it would have been an almighty yawn of a race, with the title a foregone conclusion from the start. After the dominant season they've had, allowing their two drivers to fight it out at the last round, using all the (legal) tricks of their trade, was a far greater imperative than yet another 1-2 finish.

Merc pays Hamilton his zillions because he's a balls-out racer who will never give up and settle for second best. They should cherish that, not try to sabotage it.

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Old 27 Nov 2016, 23:36 (Ref:3691577)   #99
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The team is Mercedes F1 not Lewis Hamilton Racing.Blatantly disobeying team orders.In the long term today might be remembered as the day Lewis put a wedge between himself and the team that made him dispensible.
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Old 27 Nov 2016, 23:46 (Ref:3691581)   #100
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Not the greatest of races, but was one of those you couldn't take your eyes off, especially the last laps

Nico deserved the title, he has really raised his game and beaten the better driver. Yes Lewis had mechanical problems, but so has Nico in the past. And Lewis' bad starts didn't help either

Lewis did nothing wrong, yes he tried to back Nico up, but he didn't do anything dangerous. And no he wouldn't have tried to take out Nico, not least because unlike Ayrton and Michael he was behind coming in.

Vettel and Verstappen were the entertainers of the race, Max coming from behind, whilst Seb I thought was gonna win at one point.

Shame Button's race ended early, but his gesture in the pitlane was the best. And I'm glad Massa got a points finish in his final race

Finally thanks to C4 for making the coverage top class this season, certainly made it more enjoyable
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