Le Mans Series 2008

[Francesco]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Just pic a GT, 1 or 2... who cares....
I would love to see a ptototype-only LMS

me too... and it seems that the Lavaggi situation is still not "definite" more tomorrow...

[cmk]

And then there are those of us who would prefer a multi-class LMS with top LMP and GT teams. A prototype-only series gets boring fast for a lot of us. The dynamic provided by traffic is what makes ACO-style racing so exciting.

I feel sorry for Giovanni because he did not get an entry, but he joins good company (Arena, Swiss Spirit) in that regard. Mostly, I feel sorry for him because short of the ALMS he does not have another reasonable venue to run that car. However, if we ignore the concept of cutting out GTs (thank god), who would you pick from the P1 field to replace with the Lavaggi? The only plausible candidates are the second Epsilon coupe and the Saulnier Pescarolo (cause it will almost certainly be the weakest Pesca by miles). Everyone else on that list in P1 clearly deserves to be there at least as much as the Lavaggi. Limited numbers is rough, so someone is always going to be disappointed.

[JAG]

The longer term solution is to have a single GT clsss

History also suggests single race entries are usually possible due to drop outs.

[cmk]

One longer-term solution is to have a single GT class. Another is to have a single prototype class. There are lots of potential solutions, which will be more or less favourable depending on your biases.

[JAG]

You could argue protoypes have the potential to be all out tech labs, which would rule out many privateers, so a secondary prototype class is needed.

As for GT's, they're all based on high performance road cars, does it really matter to GM, for example, if their car is in GT1 or GT2?

[johntt]

Originally Posted by JAG

You could argue protoypes have the potential to be all out tech labs, which would rule out many privateers, so a secondary prototype class is needed.

As for GT's, they're all based on high performance road cars, does it really matter to GM, for example, if their car is in GT1 or GT2?

IMO a single GT class would be best, using current GT2 levels of technology but allow them a bit more aero to keep them between GT1 and GT2 lap times. It would be open to any two door car. The cars would be kept within a certain distance of each other in order to be competitive but not totally equalised like GT3/4 is. I would set fuel tank size and restrictor size based upon engine capacity and weight.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan

The pace of the car is awfully slow. Remember the ACO wants quality entries

Thinking slightly cynically, I wonder if they ACO are taking the line that they want full-season entries that they can be fairly confident will actually show up?

Looking at the major absentees from the LMP1 list, they all share one characteristic- they missed races last year apart from Brazil- Lavaggi only 3 starts from 6 races, Swiss Spirit just one race start, Arena 4 starts from 6... They can't really play hard-ball with the teams who skipped Brazil, or they'd only have half-a-grid, so maybe this is their way of sending out a mesage- if you sign up for the full year, then we expect you to run the full year

It's interesting that Creation missed races at the beginning of the year, but are still on the list- then again they went to Brazil, which must have worked in their favour with the ACO....

Maybe the ACO would rather take the risk on offering full-season entries to an all-new team that to teams who have a history of missing races, and presumably will still get in as race-by-race entries if not all of the full-season entries show up at every race

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by KA

It's interesting that Creation missed races at the beginning of the year, but are still on the list- then again they went to Brazil, which must have worked in their favour with the ACO....

Im fairly sure that Creation would have signed up for the full year and paid the entry fees, just development issues kept them from actually competeing. It was after all a totally new car and for any privateer team to develop such a beast at late notice is pretty demanding. I know Embassy have done similar but they were, IIRC, working on it during last season too?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by C9/89

Im fairly sure that Creation would have signed up for the full year and paid the entry fees, just development issues kept them from actually competeing. It was after all a totally new car and for any privateer team to develop such a beast at late notice is pretty demanding. I know Embassy have done similar but they were, IIRC, working on it during last season too?

The organisers can be in no doubt whatsoever as to the commitment of teams like Creation and Embassy to the Series. If teams are badly let down by contracted suppliers resulting in serious delays to their build programmes, it is entirely out of their hands. Teams struggling to fund their programmes are different animals altogether, and should be treated as such by the organisers. It is important for the organisers to distinguish between the two when they make their selections.

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

The organisers can be in no doubt whatsoever as to the commitment of teams like Creation and Embassy to the Series. If teams are badly let down by contracted suppliers resulting in serious delays to their build programmes, it is entirely out of their hands. Teams struggling to fund their programmes are different animals altogether, and should be treated as such by the organisers. It is important for the organisers to distinguish between the two when they make their selections.

Thats the kiddie! I was fairly sure I was right in my assumption, thanks for clarifying it!

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by JAG

The longer term solution is to have a single GT clsss

I reckon that's a good idea . Le Mans was always more keen on proto's , as opposed to GT's .

It would be a great way to free up some grid positions , both for Le Mans and for the ALMS/LMS/ALMC .

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by KA

Thinking slightly cynically, I wonder if they ACO are taking the line that they want full-season entries that they can be fairly confident will actually show up?

Fine the offending team is a good solution , the ones that commit to a full season and miss rounds . It even made the Japs join the full Group C championship , Mazda , Nissan , Toyota !!!

I reckon thats why Arena didnt get an entry this season , cuz of all their faffing last year .

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I reckon that's a good idea . Le Mans was always more keen on proto's , as opposed to GT's .

It would be a great way to free up some grid positions , both for Le Mans and for the ALMS/LMS/ALMC .

I don't reckon its a good Idea at all! If it is so important for the P-cars to have a class where the Privateers can run and not have to compete against the Factory teams then why not in the GT's? I think a 4 class grid works just fine.

L.P.

[duke_toaster]

So fine a team that doesn't have the budget to make races ... OK.

[FIRE]

More pics of the VM Motorsport Spyder:
http://www.vm-motorsport.nl/nl/galle..._rs_spyder.php

Looks great.

[dj choc ice]

very nice!!!, the VM porsche look very pretty, in a weird way reminds me of the silk cut jag's of old, a good looking car and hopefully it will spice up LMP2

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

So fine a team that doesn't have the budget to make races ... OK.

Huh? If they do not have the budget to make all the races then why are they applying for a full Season entry then?

L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by FIRE

More pics of the VM Motorsport Spyder:
http://www.vm-motorsport.nl/nl/galle..._rs_spyder.php

Looks great.

Yes, it does like quite nice!

L.P.

[Justin Moran]

Very distinctive colour scheme!

[KA]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Huh? If they do not have the budget to make all the races then why are they applying for a full Season entry then?

L.P.

Circumstances do change- all it needs is a mid-season loss of a sponsor, a pay-driver splitting with the team, and a budget that was adequate at the beginning of the year for a full season suddenly isn't....

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by KA

Circumstances do change- all it needs is a mid-season loss of a sponsor, a pay-driver splitting with the team, and a budget that was adequate at the beginning of the year for a full season suddenly isn't....

Hmm, I thought that is why there were such things as contracts. Those things that produce legal obligations and are the basis for being able to accurately project what the team could reasonably expect as a base budget to operate from and apply accordingly. At least that was the way it used to work for me.

L.P.

[Zytek_Fan]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Yes, it does like quite nice!

L.P.

I think Peter van Merksteijn definitely took some inspiration from the Silk Cut Jaguars

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan

I think Peter van Merksteijn definitely took some inspiration from the Silk Cut Jaguars

No, he uses this livery also on his rallycars:
http://www.vm-motorsport.nl/nl/galle...ally_20082.php

[canam]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Hmm, I thought that is why there were such things as contracts. Those things that produce legal obligations and are the basis for being able to accurately project what the team could reasonably expect as a base budget to operate from and apply accordingly. At least that was the way it used to work for me.

L.P.

It is the relationship that counts. To try to enforce a judgement in one court on a third party that resides in another jurisdiction is a license to print money for lawyers. Many small teams can barely afford to make the wages let alone hire a team of lawyers to fight a case. Where big money is involved, I would agree with you. In many cases, however, the legal costs can end up being higher than what you would receive--even if the other guy paid (which he may not).

Teams are so hungry for any form of funding that they take on less credit-worthy players. There is a certain gentleman that was able to convince numerous teams that 'money would be coming' and got several LM drives on that basis. Naturally, the cash never came and he has vanished.

The credit quality of the racing business would make the sub-prime market look top quality.

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

the Dutch RS Spyder is quiete amazing with that purple !
still the Danish one has the worst livery for a Porsche, in both sides of the Atlantic lol