Le Mans Series 2008

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by JAG

IMO:-

5 x 1000k/4Hr races (either distance is fine), finishing in the dusk/night.

2 x 'Sprint' events in non traditional areas, i.e Holland, Denmark, Sweden.

If a 'traditional' venue is to go, make it Monza, the UK and Germany are musts due to the number of manufacturer's/teams, Spa is an amazing track, while Spain is an emerging sportscar market.

The long gap since Le Mans suggests teams would welcome a couple more events, especially if they aren't supplementing their schedule with ALMS events.

I said it before: The perfect Sprint Event is a (maybe Prototype-only) race at the Norisring DTM-weekend. It's less than 100kms from Audi's headquarters at Ingolstadt and has huge crowds. Rumor is that the ADAC-GT-Masters won't be back next year, so there would be an opening in the schedule.
I'd rather kick the Nürburgring 1000k (The Grand Prix circuit isn't that great, anyway) and keep Monza . Monza IMO has to stay on the schedule, because it is probably the track that resembles Le Mans the most.

[cmk]

I'm not totally in disagreement with your position on 4 hour races, though the best-prepared factory-supported cars can run flat chat for 6 hours without issue rather than having to pace. The reliability of modern, well-prepared prototypes and GTs is sufficient for them to run either 4 hour or 6 hour races, unlike the last of the Group C cars, so I don't think there is any reason to restrict the race lengths to something like 400km on those grounds, unless there is a marketing or competition reason for doing so.

Deggis, while I take your comment that things are not 'as they should be' with respect to P1 and P2 as it was written, because the ACO has stated that things 'should' be that way, I don't really feel that it invalidates the way things are. If P1 was the only manufacturer playground, then all those top P2s would be in P1, but there would still be factory domination with all-pro lineups at the top of the field. Nothing would functionally change with the exception of a semi-crippled P2 class running around as in olden days. I guess you'd have one gentleman-suitable class then, irrespective of race length, but would it provide as much support as gentleman provide to the LMS now, through the entire breadth of the grid? I rather doubt it, but hey, it's just my $0.02.

[ger80]

Originally Posted by deggis

Let's not forget that the last years of Group C had solely 480 and 430 km races.

Thats why it had been the last years?

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I said it before: The perfect Sprint Event is a (maybe Prototype-only) race at the Norisring DTM-weekend. It's less than 100kms from Audi's headquarters at Ingolstadt and has huge crowds. Rumor is that the ADAC-GT-Masters won't be back next year, so there would be an opening in the schedule.
I'd rather kick the Nürburgring 1000k (The Grand Prix circuit isn't that great, anyway) and keep Monza . Monza IMO has to stay on the schedule, because it is probably the track that resembles Le Mans the most.

The Nürburgring is a traditional event and has to stay...

I'd like to see Spa, Nürburgring, Monza and Silverstone as 1000km. Then, Norisring and Zandvoort as double headers with DTM (possibly LM Bugatti too) over a sprint distance. Additionally two or three 3 to 4 hour races, say Catalunya, Istanbul and a flyaway if they finally manage to figure out how to get one right

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

The Nürburgring is a traditional event and has to stay...

I'd like to see Spa, Nürburgring, Monza and Silverstone as 1000km. Then, Norisring and Zandvoort as double headers with DTM (possibly LM Bugatti too) over a sprint distance. Additionally two or three 3 to 4 hour races, say Catalunya, Istanbul and a flyaway if they finally manage to figure out how to get one right

On the flyaway they should make it the opener, about 3-4 weeks in front of Sebring, make it points and a half, mandatory participation for scoring full season points and a round of the new Asian Le Mans Series.

L.P.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by cmk

I'm not totally in disagreement with your position on 4 hour races, though the best-prepared factory-supported cars can run flat chat for 6 hours without issue rather than having to pace.

Cars can take it with compromise but I believe mostly it doesn't happen because of risk management (driver errors). Anything can happen during 6 hours time and it makes no sense to drive 100% all the time if it's really not needed. 4 hours is a third less, "I need to start pushing if I want to win" point of the race comes so much sooner.

I'm not a real racer so if Allan McNish suddenly comes here and tells me to shut the F up, I'm all ears.

And like I pointed out in my previous post, hard to say how much lack of really competitive teams have its share on the race results. Now it's only Audi vs. Pug, it's easier to beat only two rivals than several rivals, especially when the other one is clearly slower and there is always tendency for unexpected pitstops which too often means the car is out of the victory battle. Of course 2 hours shorter races doesn't really change this.

Deggis, while I take your comment that things are not 'as they should be' with respect to P1 and P2 as it was written, because the ACO has stated that things 'should' be that way, I don't really feel that it invalidates the way things are. If P1 was the only manufacturer playground, then all those top P2s would be in P1, but there would still be factory domination with all-pro lineups at the top of the field. Nothing would functionally change with the exception of a semi-crippled P2 class running around as in olden days.

Basically isn't P1 now semi-crippled then?

I guess you'd have one gentleman-suitable class then, irrespective of race length, but would it provide as much support as gentleman provide to the LMS now, through the entire breadth of the grid? I rather doubt it, but hey, it's just my $0.02.

Of course not. I don't mean P1 would be exclusive to manufacturers, only intented. But privateers should understand their position if they're racing against "the big boys" in P1. I mean, not like Super Aguri expected to win races in F1.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by ger80

Thats why it had been the last years?

I thought 3.5L killed it. Feel free to enlighten me then.

480km (all races) was introduced in 1989.

[ger80]

Originally Posted by deggis

I thought 3.5L killed it. Feel free to enlighten me then.

480km (all races) was introduced in 1989.

Well, I only think that LMS should stay with the 1000km races. Maybe one or two additional rounds, but still all in Europe.
Never change a running system
And if Audi, Peugeot, ... need something else for marketing, let them start a world cup with including the 1000km rounds in Europe and additonal rounds somewhere else with a more tv friendly distance ...
I love the LMS for all the privatear teams who let you have a look in the pits and so on, not for Pug & Audi.
Next proposal will be to run a 6h race on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday in Le Mans instead of the 24h because the tv ratings in the night a bad?

[isynge]

Originally Posted by ger80

Next proposal will be to run a 6h race on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday in Le Mans instead of the 24h because the tv ratings in the night a bad?

Don't joke! Jean Todt in the 1990s suggested pretty much that when he worried the Peugeot 905s wouldn't last the distance...

[JAG]

They answered my email on RLM, it seems Monza is up for the chop, a mixed schedule of events, with possibly Porto and Brno the new venues.

[ger80]

Do we have some background informations about the Lucchini? Seems like both cars had a "paperwork" problem. For RacingBox I maybe can understand if they modified the car but the Ranieri Randaccio car is more or less a "as build" car, isnt it?

[Gil Abobeleira]

Are they crazy, Porto?

Did they actually see any footage from last year's WTCC round?

That place is narrow even for touring cars.

Add the fact that the track is not that great. If they want to have a street race in Portugal, Vila Real is soooooo much better (much better flow, wider) and it's only 90 km from Oporto. And there were some sportscar races back in the 60s and 70s (for example a 500km and a 6 hour race back in the old days of the old and long track).

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

The Nürburgring is a traditional event and has to stay...

I'd like to see Spa, Nürburgring, Monza and Silverstone as 1000km. Then, Norisring and Zandvoort as double headers with DTM (possibly LM Bugatti too) over a sprint distance. Additionally two or three 3 to 4 hour races, say Catalunya, Istanbul and a flyaway if they finally manage to figure out how to get one right

Sounds similar to my idea; keep the four classic 1000km races at Spa, Silverstone, Monza and Nring.

To them add 4x 2 hour 45 min races, supporting the DTM at Zandvoort and Mugello, supporting A1GP at that new circuit in the Algarve, and a race at Donington with BTCC as support.

I would also add a 4 hour race in Scandinavia somewhere (that new Gotlandring looks good) running into the evening in the summer with STCC as suppiort, and revive the Norisring 200 miles.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Gil Abobeleira

Are they crazy, Porto?

Did they actually see any footage from last year's WTCC round?

That place is narrow even for touring cars.

Add the fact that the track is not that great. If they want to have a street race in Portugal, Vila Real is soooooo much better (much better flow, wider) and it's only 90 km from Oporto. And there were some sportscar races back in the 60s and 70s (for example a 500km and a 6 hour race back in the old days of the old and long track).

Villa Real

[isynge]

Originally Posted by ger80

Do we have some background informations about the Lucchini? Seems like both cars had a "paperwork" problem. For RacingBox I maybe can understand if they modified the car but the Ranieri Randaccio car is more or less a "as build" car, isnt it?

According to DSC the Randaccio car has had the same modifications as the Racing Box, and these still haven't got their homologation papers sorted.

I'm all for weird and wonderful entries, and having a diverse grid, but the Lucchini story is now at the stage of just being frustrating - and it annoys given that there was at least one potential entrant for the full LMS turned away because of the likes of this. I've huge sympathy for Racing Box as a team, and wish the Lucchinis would run, but pragmatism suggests that maybe it's time to let them fade away.

[Speed-King]

Probably more LMS 2009, but look at the picture gallery at http://www.24u.be/2008/en/fotopages/album/76/
It's from a test for the upcoming 24hrs at Zolder. Could that black car be LNT's GT2 Ginetta? There's what seems to be a works G50 entered in the "guest division" with regular LNT-drivers Danny Watts, Richard Dean and Lawrence Tomlinson.
I don't know if there's a GT3-version of the Ginetta on the way as well, if so it could of course be the GT3, but with the big wing it's for sure not the usual GT4.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by ger80

Do we have some background informations about the Lucchini? Seems like both cars had a "paperwork" problem. For RacingBox I maybe can understand if they modified the car but the Ranieri Randaccio car is more or less a "as build" car, isnt it?

Evidently it has had similar updates to it, compared to the Racing Box chassis.

L.P.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Probably more LMS 2009, but look at the picture gallery at http://www.24u.be/2008/en/fotopages/album/76/
It's from a test for the upcoming 24hrs at Zolder. Could that black car be LNT's GT2 Ginetta? There's what seems to be a works G50 entered in the "guest division" with regular LNT-drivers Danny Watts, Richard Dean and Lawrence Tomlinson.
I don't know if there's a GT3-version of the Ginetta on the way as well, if so it could of course be the GT3, but with the big wing it's for sure not the usual GT4.

It's the Ginetta G50R, which is an evolution of the GT4 car.

[ger80]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Evidently it has had similar updates to it, compared to the Racing Box chassis.

L.P.

What did they changed? The monocoque itself?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by ger80

What did they changed? The monocoque itself?

Not sure! Just trying to pass on a little info for you.


L.P.

[Mirage M6]

A mixed schedule of the 4 'classic' 1000km events with some 500km races could be great, the best option in my opinion, but I think they should give more points to the teams that finished a 1000km race. More points will translated in far more importance to these events and will cheer up the privaters to compete there

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by JAG

They answered my email on RLM, it seems Monza is up for the chop, a mixed schedule of events, with possibly Porto and Brno the new venues.

Nooo, Monza 1000k is on my list of events to do in 2009, don't mess with the historic rounds that work well at the moment: the 1000ks at Spa, Monza, the UK and Nurburgring - it works. Feel free to swap the Spain race for a couple of shorter rounds if you wish but at the moment the series is about the individual races and not a championship battle and that's one of the reasons I love it.

[rich07]

Not Monza!! Monza, Spa, Silverstone and Nurburgring should be untouchable-they are the historic rounds and have 'presence'-you know what I mean. They're not just any race there's a lot of history behind them. If you want a race somewhere it should be added on to the calender and shouldn't replace one of the 'historic four'. What next Spa?? Thats unthinkable.

[The Badger]

Just remember how fast Monza dropped theLMS a couple of years ago . The feeling obviously isnt mutual .

But Monza is one of the more historic tracks , and imo should always be on a sportscar calendar .

[The Badger]

Just remember how fast Monza dropped the LMS a couple of years ago . The feeling obviously isnt mutual .

But Monza is one of the more historic tracks , and imo should always be on a sportscar calendar .