Rubens to Michael: 'I was hoping you'd say NO'

[DNQ]

Him, don't want to stir anything up here, but I think this is a pretty important video: This clipHere to me gives us a bit of an insight into what Rubens really feels about the race-fixing situation. Somehow I don't think things that day were quite as rosy at Ferrari as the press conference made out...

The video is about 1.5mb, right click and choose save target as. You must have divx 5+ installed (http://www.divx.com)

Cheers,
Scott

[Red]

Indeed. Actually I was hoping that too. But frankly I don't want to imagine what would've happened then...

[jiggly_puff]

i think it would have been interesting to see what would have happened!!!!

[Liz]

Since Michael is clearly a coward, we'll never know. I hope Rubens continues to trust in the goodness of mankind, but at this point only because it makes the opposing party look so very bad. If he is really feeling any guilt over the moral condemnation he is receiving, perhaps Rubens saying "I thought you were a better man than that" will strike home with him. Who knows, he may yet manage to rise above the deep hole he has dug for himself.

[mariov]

MS should have said"No".....simple

If they would have said that to me, I wouls have said no....I would have signaled RB to go on....if they would have insisted, I would have slowed down so much they would have had to change their mind or see JPM win.

The worst in all of this, is that they dont need it, thwy have the best chance at the championship this year, the best car, the best driver...and Rubbens finaly showing the potential he has....

They could breack the all time record of total points for a team in the construstor championship....

Now MS is the best driver today, so what is he affraid off, why can't he just show he is, just for once......show it on the trak with talent....

All I have asked for, is for him to win one championship cleanly, no games, no punts, no illegal manouvers, no illegal electronics, no team tactics.....just for once to race cleanly, and race hi a.s.s. off and win one with talent.

Well it has not happend in 5 championship's, guess it wont happend for the 6th either.

As a competitor, I would have rather parked it on the side of the track then win like that....but he took it.

[Liz]

The most expensive three points ever "awarded" -- because it cost him everything.

I hope it was worth it.

[Valve Bounce]

OK, my PC is too old/slow/whatever and will not download this. Can anyone please let me know what was said. Thank you.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

[Mania]

It's a soundbite from the podium apparently. But it doesent sound like Rubens - I think it's the commentator who basically says he heard Rubens say " I was hoping you'd say no" - referring to the orders from the pit wall to the two drivers. Rubens was apparently telling Michael that he was hoping Michael would refuse the team's orders to pass Rubens on the last lap...

[Inigo Montoya]

The commentator is repeating what (if you rewind and listen repeatedly with the volume blaring) it sounds like Rubens said.

[Liz]

A cruel celebration of the 20th Anniversary of the death of Gilles Villeneuve -- who died as a result of being cheated out of a race win with the connivance of Ferrari.

What an omen.

[Inigo Montoya]

Liz, do you buy that theory that Gilles was trying so hard to outpace Pironi that he crashed?

I still wonder what really happened ther -Il Commendatore and Gilles were like father and son, so I can't see why Enzo would have purposely tried to screw Gilles. I always thought that it was Pironi who pulled the stunt on his own, but then again, I was quite young and still blinded by the Ferrari mystique.

[Sato san]

I think Enzo just wanted 2 balls out racers at the end of the day , thats what i have always heard about him .

[Sato san]

Going back to the Michael /Rubens debate ....well , ive just watched the video , and that makes it quite clear what Rubens really thought of Michaels win.

But can i say this to anyone who believes that Michael wasnt to blame for sundays Farce of a race.......

When Michael crossed the finishing line to win the race , as he went into turn 1 he waved at the crowd as if he was the winner ....if as he says he was really upset about winning like this ...Why did he wave at the crowd then ?
I think he waved at the crowd because he thinks wghat ever he does is ok ...., but it was only when he got out off the car and heard ever one boo'ing him that he acted like he was unhappy too . He then gave the cup to Rubens and said his speech in the press conference . I think that was all pure acting , He seemed happy up until he heard the abuse he was getting from the crowd , otherwise why wave in celebration of his so called victory !

if he was that unhappy about it , he would have just drove back to the pits without any celebration .

[Mr V]

i'd be interested to know what was said on the slow-down lap, usually on sky we're treated to "michael's speeches" but non were forthcoming this time..........shame!

[facco]

What's going on with the world?
Sportman of the year award to the most unsportmanlike guy around the circus?

[senna12]

Rubinho mistakenly assumed that Michael had some morals, but you would think he would have figured out already, that it is not the case.
I guess Michael thought he was more highly thought of than he is, and peoples adoration for him was enough to make what happened ok, since he is the hero of Ferrari. Crowd reaction after the race suggests otherwise. Sato san has pointed this out.

As for Gilles and Didier, I blame Pironi totally. I have posted a quote from a book (Gilles' biography) on another thread about this.

Michael, IMHO, couldn't carry Gilles jockstrap.

[Josh]

I see how unfair it is for both drivers!
But I don't see why the FIA F1 people have to try and get him fined etc.?
They can't stop teams doing that!
But Ferrai should have made them pass so it was not easly spotted!

Thats what I think!
Joshua

[Jukebox]

Well, i think since everybody is making such a big fuss about it (including me )....so it's just a morale duty for FIA to call them up. But they didn't say anything about fine yet and i don't think it'll go to that extend

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by senna12
Rubinho mistakenly assumed that Michael had some morals, but you would think he would have figured out already, that it is not the case.

Can we stop the violins for Rubens? IF you are going to insist on blaming TGF for not lifting on the gas, you MUST blame the lap dog for not pressing on the gas.

Please don't feed me the usual line that it was TGF's responsiblity, because he has some sort of magical power at Ferrari that Rubens does not have. If TGF had disobeyed team orders, you people would have torn him apart for being so highly paid, and yet arrogantly not listening to his employers. I also don't buy the argument that if Rubens had disobeyed team orders, he would have been sacked. That is total bs - can you imagine the public outcry and resulting PR own-goal that would have been for Ferrari? MUCH worse than anything that happened on Sunday.

[senna12]

I am certainly not playing any violins for Rubens. I just mentioned that Rubens may have thought that Michael had a stronger character than that which was shown.

As far as responsibility or blame, I think it is safe to say that Rubens punishment for pressing the gas would have been greater than Michael's for hitting the brake. Had Michael braked, I for one would not have torn him apart for doing so. On the contrary, I would have congratulated him for finally reaching his moral limit after 11 odd years. Had Rubens not complied, I would have congratulated him as well.


Rubens need to drive the Ferrari is enough to make him swallow his pride and play slave to Michael. He's made his own bed, so I don't feel sorry for him, either.

If Ferrari are willing to deal with the PR disaster of Sunday, they're probably willing to sack Rubens too. Michael's championship has not been decided yet.

[Liz]

If they sack Rubens, who is going to take the job? Anyone? We're waiting..............

In fact that's probably why they re-signed him to begin with, don't you think?

But to answer the question about Gilles, yes I do think that is the direct cause of his death and so does Gerry Donaldson if you read his book. Gilles was devastated that the people he trusted and loved as his family would treat him that way. I don't believe it was Enzo who came out on the side of Pironi though, I think it was Piccinini.

And I think it is even more ironic and totally fitting that shortly after that Pironi suffered a career-ending accident and eventually died without ever coming back to reap the reward of those stolen three points.

One more time those 3 points cost two men everything they had.

[senna12]

Yes, that is probably why they signed him, he was a known quantity until recently, and he has demonstrated a willingness to be the toady. Mind you, after this episode, I originally thought he would be quite safe in ignoring another order, if the circumstances were the same. But after thinking about it for another minute or two, I'm not so sure. You know, the team is bigger than the driver thing...


You were right that Enzo was not on Pironi's side, as was stated in the book, he blamed Pironi for misinterpreting the signals given. Gilles swore he would never speak to Pironi again. Actually Gilles should have trusted Joanne's judgement, she felt Pironi untrustworthy and out for personal interest only...how right she was....

I also felt Pironi's subsequent accident and death was a fitting end to this sad story, although I have never mentioned it previously.

I also think that some of the backtracking by other drivers is as much a political/employment issue, as an actual change of opinion. I think a lot of them feel as JYS does, or at least, how he said he felt yesterday. Maybe he's changed his mind too.

[Liz]

Judging by the last line of the ITV story in which JYS begs the FIA to go easy on Ferrari because it will cost him (i.e. Silverstone) big time if they don't , I would say you're absolutely right about that.

I'd forgotten that Joanne told him not to trust Pironi, but you're right. Men should listen to their wives in situations like this. We women of that era were used to dealing with men who had Ulterior Motives. That is very sad, but it is also very true.

Nobody gets away with anything in this life. Sooner or later you reap what you have sown.