WEC FIA World Endurance Championship - Page 112

Salamus · 17 Jan 2013, 19:03 (Ref:3190666)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

Three points I'm taking away from the P1 situation:

1. Le Mans and the run up to it matters. The WEC after Le Mans not so much. Which is to say the incremental benefit of racing post Le Mans isn’t worth the additional cost to several teams — and that’s a very bad sign for the WEC.

2. Toyota just does not place that much value on winning the WEC.

3. Given how weak P1 numbers are looking for WEC this year, it makes me wonder what 2014 will look like. Will we see any privateer P1s then?

1. For a couple of years, the old WSC tried putting the majority of the races before Le Mans. I don't know how well it worked in attracting more entries.

2. This is the big negative with Le Mans. It is the crown jewel of sports car racing, yet it demotes everything else to a secondary objective. Similar to how the Indy 500 is more important than the IndyCar championship. The ACO has to find a way to advertise the WEC champion to make it important enough for teams to compete in.

3. I think both Toyota and Audi will stay, along with Porsche when 2014 comes. As for privateers, there is a really big question mark. OAK has mentioned that they want to build a P1. HPD and Lola are question marks.

Maelochs · 17 Jan 2013, 19:59 (Ref:3190695)

Can't blame Toyotas for not wanting to go all-out in 2013 with a car which won't be competitive in 2014 (Sure, there will be "grandfather" rules, but when has a grandfathered car ever won (except Sebring 2011 because the big teams broke and crashed)?

My question is whether Toyota will be back in 2014, with any number of cars. if so, I'd expect a longer-term commitment, given that the car ought to be viable for a few seasons.

Sounds to me like there is a lot of internal conflict at Toyota between the guys who love to race and the guys who love to make money. i'm guessing Japanese politics and economic growth are a better predictor of whether we will see them in 2014 than their 2013 race results will be.

And if they do win Le Mans ... Sayonara, we got ours.

Nigma · 17 Jan 2013, 20:04 (Ref:3190697)

I hope Toyota get 1-2 finishes at Spa and Le Mans so they can show the higher ups what they've missed out on getting continuously.

Starfish Primer · 17 Jan 2013, 20:04 (Ref:3190696)

Putting a lot of races before Le Mans can make the teams run out of money before the 24hr. A big shunt in April with a written off car and the 24hr are gone.

TF110 · 17 Jan 2013, 22:40 (Ref:3190779)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

No, it says that we can clearly expect them to be there (which is not as firm as an announcement from the team itself).

Isn't that the same thing? The site says they'll race there = expects them to be there.

Simmi · 17 Jan 2013, 22:57 (Ref:3190791)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigma

I hope Toyota get 1-2 finishes at Spa and Le Mans so they can show the higher ups what they've missed out on getting continuously.

I genuinely think they'd pull out of sportscars on the spot if they managed that.

TF110 · 17 Jan 2013, 23:29 (Ref:3190810)

I think the opposite is true.

gwyllion · 17 Jan 2013, 23:34 (Ref:3190813)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

I think the opposite is true.

Le Mans victory = mission accomplished for Toyota bean counters.

CTD · 17 Jan 2013, 23:36 (Ref:3190817)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Le Mans victory = mission accomplished for Toyota bean counters.

Agreed

Nigma · 17 Jan 2013, 23:42 (Ref:3190822)

All I want to see is Sarrazin capable of running all year in a super competitive car. :/

TF110 · 17 Jan 2013, 23:43 (Ref:3190823)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Le Mans victory = mission accomplished for Toyota bean counters.

Who are they? I hear this a lot with no basis. Akio Toyoda is a racing and sportscar buff. Hes running the company now, not beancounters. Toyota before was about being #1. Now its headed in another more sporty direction. I dont buy that thinking anymore.

gwyllion · 18 Jan 2013, 00:12 (Ref:3190835)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigma

All I want to see is Sarrazin capable of running all year in a super competitive car. :/

You already said that. Maybe he will get a seat in the most competitive LMP2 car with 8star

Nigma · 18 Jan 2013, 00:57 (Ref:3190847)

I know, but I can't seem to get my dissatisfaction across that Sarrazin isn't getting a full time drive.

Maelochs · 18 Jan 2013, 02:52 (Ref:3190888)

"Akio Toyoda is a racing and sportscar buff. Hes running the company now, not beancounters."

No multinational corporation is "run" by a person. If he went and spent the entire budget on racing, I assume you think he'd be fired, right? Extend it out ... if he tries to spend too much he will be replaced or simply not given the funds.

The fact that "Akio Toyoda is a racing and sportscar buff" is proabbly why we see Toyota at all in the WEC. But if Akio Toyoda was really 100% in control, why don't we see a three-car effort?

I admit I don't know all of Toyota's corporate by laws and business structure, but I know a little bit about how big corporations work, and the idea that the top guy has absolute freedom doesn't fit in with that. I could be wrong.

TF110 · 18 Jan 2013, 04:33 (Ref:3190919)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

"Akio Toyoda is a racing and sportscar buff. Hes running the company now, not beancounters."

No multinational corporation is "run" by a person. If he went and spent the entire budget on racing, I assume you think he'd be fired, right? Extend it out ... if he tries to spend too much he will be replaced or simply not given the funds.

The fact that "Akio Toyoda is a racing and sportscar buff" is proabbly why we see Toyota at all in the WEC. But if Akio Toyoda was really 100% in control, why don't we see a three-car effort?

I admit I don't know all of Toyota's corporate by laws and business structure, but I know a little bit about how big corporations work, and the idea that the top guy has absolute freedom doesn't fit in with that. I could be wrong.

Why so literal? I didn't say he ran the whole company on his own. He's the CEO and has sway and say in which direction Toyota takes. Venturing into unprofitable businesses isn't wise no matter how much you love something. That includes racing. Hybrid technology is still young and promoting it right now through racing is basically the WEC in LMP1 and SuperGT 300. Maybe you only follow Toyota through their racing. I follow Toyota through all aspects, not just racing. Lots of things are tying into these programs going on. Whether they continue on with this is to be seen, but thinking one and done is premature. TMG is not just a racing arm, it's a business. A good business, and there may be more to it being a business and making a name and money for itself and Toyota that could be involved in this LMP program. Not to mention TMG is Ferrari's 'temporary home' for this season's F1 car.

rich07 · 18 Jan 2013, 05:22 (Ref:3190932)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simmi

There we go Graham says on MWM what I've been saying - McLaren GTE is dead.

Tears fill my eyes. What a shame

rich07 · 18 Jan 2013, 05:27 (Ref:3190934)

What a wasted oppurtunity. So sad right now.

Acid09 · 18 Jan 2013, 11:35 (Ref:3191036)

The best thing for TMG and sports cars would be them coming really close to winning Le Mans this year.

Enough for the HQ to keep faith in them but not actually doing it, I think that scenario would lead to a 2014 car.

As most people here, I'm pretty sure they'll be gone if they win. If 2014 would just be a matter of continue running the car then this wouldn't be as crucial but seeing how a brand new car must be build I don't think the incentive for the bean counters is still there if they win.

Looking at how well the TS030 performed last year I "fear" they will win this year and the dream of more than two manufacturers competing at Le Mans will once again be crushed.

Victor_RO · 18 Jan 2013, 11:40 (Ref:3191041)

Dagys:

Quote:

Looks like there were at least 12 entry requests for #WEC LMP2.

https://twitter.com/johndagys/status/292231806164537344

Last season (apart from Le Mans) there were around 10-11 WEC LMP2 cars on the track just about for the whole season, particularly from Spa onwards when Signatech and Lotus went to two cars. So at least one class in the WEC looks to be enjoying some degree of stability.

Simmi · 18 Jan 2013, 14:24 (Ref:3191110)

Not a surprise but looks like Felbermayr-Proton will be back in the WEC. Still not 100% but seems like they will be there when the lists come out.

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-15339.html

Starfish Primer · 18 Jan 2013, 19:16 (Ref:3191201)

Let´s see if they can get a full WEC entry, they have one of the best liveries. GT-Am is a likely option for them using 2012 car.

Do you know if IMSA Performance will enter WEC GT-Am class?

Simmi · 18 Jan 2013, 19:29 (Ref:3191207)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

Do you know if IMSA Performance will enter WEC GT-Am class?

Yep that entry is confirmed for IMSA - Narac/Bourret/Vernay.

Every entry is precious right now!

Jacques Rabbit · 18 Jan 2013, 22:33 (Ref:3191269)

Now I'm confused. Didn't Pascal Gibon go to IMSA Performance? I'm 0-for-a lot on remembering driver lineups today, so I'm sure I made some mistake there.

Good for Vernay to be in that ride.

Simmi · 18 Jan 2013, 23:03 (Ref:3191272)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

Now I'm confused. Didn't Pascal Gibon go to IMSA Performance? I'm 0-for-a lot on remembering driver lineups today, so I'm sure I made some mistake there.

Good for Vernay to be in that ride.

You had me doubting myself there but here we go:
http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-14983.html

Bourret defected from Larbre.

Canada ALMS fan · 18 Jan 2013, 23:41 (Ref:3191291)

So if my math is correct based on announced and expected programs we have:
5 LMP1
12 LMP2
8 GTE Pro (if I am reading correctly there will be 4 Astons?)
7 GTE Am

I am excited to see Gulf ME is actually going ahead with their art car. I bet it will be gorgeous in the flesh.

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