Bernie

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

He knows where all the bodies are buried...

and some...

[Woolley]

If there's one good thing about this story it's that we can now say, without fear of litigation, that what we all though about him was actually correct. He is by his own admission a corrupt tax dodger.

I've read his solicitor's explanation of why the fund wasn't declared. That has to be the biggest fairy tale in legal history. Don't believe a word of it.

Nasty little man.

[Mike Harte]

I actually don't agree with your feelings about the man, although it is possible that he did attempt to evade tax; I don't know because I don't know what was in his mind at the time.

However, the prosecution (not the defence) have acknowledged that at the time that he made the initial statement Ecclestone wasn't aware of the position of the trust in Singapore and therefore he shouldn't have made the statement that he did. I don't think that the prosecutor in the case would have said that based on what the defence claimed.

There are a number of F1 teams in the past that are very grateful for all the assistance that he gave them, especially financial help. That's something that is not acknowledged very often.

[Peter Mallett]

Mike does have a point, Bernie was behind the financing of Jordan (admitted by Eddie), I understand he assisted Wiliams on a few occasions.

OTOH, he created the monster that is F1 by turning it into a circus. His approach to smaller teams when dishing out tyre contracts was appalling.

I could care less about his tax affairs, in fact fair play if he has got away with paying less than us proles have to pay (percentage wise).

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Mike does have a point, Bernie was behind the financing of Jordan (admitted by Eddie), I understand he assisted Wiliams on a few occasions.

OTOH, he created the monster that is F1 by turning it into a circus. His approach to smaller teams when dishing out tyre contracts was appalling.

I could care less about his tax affairs, in fact fair play if he has got away with paying less than us proles have to pay (percentage wise).

Yes Peter, and he also paid the salaries for all the employees for at least a couple of teams that ran into financial difficulties way in the past and more recently before he sold to Liberty.

I know nothing about tyre contracts, so can't comment. However, he was fiercely loyal to F1 and would help anyone if he could. If you disagreed with him, and did that to his face, he remained your friend; go behind his back about a disagreement, and woe betide you.

[Richard C]

I think Bernie is more than one thing. A business man, a criminal, and sometimes a nice guy.

Richard

[justracing]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Yes Peter, and he also paid the salaries for all the employees for at least a couple of teams that ran into financial difficulties way in the past and more recently before he sold to Liberty.

With whose money?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by justracing

With whose money?

His own. He was a successful business man before he and Mosley got involved with F1, what with his partnership in a motorcycle dealership, and subsequently he was involved in the importation of cars. Yes, he made an ever bigger fortune from F1, but then the canny F1 entrepreneurs also did quite nicely thanks to him. And he didn't need to help out at the teams in financial trouble, and as far as I am aware, these were gifts not loans to be repaid (unless the benefactor actually wished to repay the monies).

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Yes Peter, and he also paid the salaries for all the employees for at least a couple of teams that ran into financial difficulties way in the past and more recently before he sold to Liberty.

I know nothing about tyre contracts, so can't comment. However, he was fiercely loyal to F1 and would help anyone if he could. If you disagreed with him, and did that to his face, he remained your friend; go behind his back about a disagreement, and woe betide you.

I think he has done much more than is known and he was happy for it to remain unknown.It may be to his advantage that the sentence was passed in a week when other matters are dominating the news.The investigation into his affairs must have cost a very great deal more than the average guy.


I do happen to agree with his comments about too many races these days.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

I think he has done much more than is known and he was happy for it to remain unknown.

I'd go along with that - know many who he has helped out over the years.

[GTRMagic]

Mr Ecclestone's documentarys isnt called 'Lucky' for nothing

Here

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Mr Ecclestone's documentarys isnt called 'Lucky' for nothing

Here

Thanks for that, GTR, because it's now on a channel I have access to rather than behind a paywall.

[chillibowl]

the sports i follow now days is only possible because of people like BE...supremos, commissioners, team founders/owners of their respective sports who by hook or crook took a niche thing and grew it to a point where anyone in the world could follow it regardless of where they happened to grow up.

shame that the new owners dont see the value in him or are too worried about perception to acknowledge his efforts in a more meaningful way.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

the sports i follow now days is only possible because of people like BE...supremos, commissioners, team founders/owners of their respective sports who by hook or crook took a niche thing and grew it to a point where anyone in the world could follow it regardless of where they happened to grow up.

shame that the new owners dont see the value in him or are too worried about perception to acknowledge his efforts in a more meaningful way.

It's complicated for sure. Consider the story of Fritz Haber

He invented the Haber-Bosh process which was the key for the ability to manufacture fertilizer on a large scale. This had a huge impact on the world even to this day with respect to feeding generations of people. This was a huge deal. For this contribution he won the 1918 Nobel for Chemistry.

He also was a significant and enthusiastic contributor to the chemical warfare program used by Germany in WW1 which killed many people.

Who is the true Fritz Haber? Of course the answer is both.

The problem with people like Bernie is that their positive influences always struggle to overcome the negative ones. And it doesn't help that Bernie anymore is just mostly negative news. Either cozying up to dictators or in this case being convicted of criminal activity. He has no one but himself to blame for any tarnish on his reputation. And I might be wrong here, I suspect most of his "helping hand" activities were around solving first world problems like bailing out failed F1 teams, etc. Basically a very "upper crust" activity even if it may in the end helped the working/common men and women who may have also been helped by the trickle down benefits of those actions.

Richard

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Mr Ecclestone's documentarys isnt called 'Lucky' for nothing

Here

really enjoyed this doco. Very well put together.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Mr Ecclestone's documentarys isnt called 'Lucky' for nothing

Here

Would love to watch it, but it seems no US distribution.

Richard

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Richard C

Would love to watch it, but it seems no US distribution.

Richard

Nothing an Aussie VPN and Stan free trial won't fix

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

His own. He was a successful business man before he and Mosley got involved with F1, what with his partnership in a motorcycle dealership, and subsequently he was involved in the importation of cars. Yes, he made an ever bigger fortune from F1, but then the canny F1 entrepreneurs also did quite nicely thanks to him. And he didn't need to help out at the teams in financial trouble, and as far as I am aware, these were gifts not loans to be repaid (unless the benefactor actually wished to repay the monies).

Bernie bought into Brabham after Jack retired and after Ron T left took the entire project over, employing Gordon Murray to design the BT 42 and 44, making Brabham an effective force in F1 again.
He began to organize the teams into a proper force regarding starting money and financial value.
From there he met Max and the two of them built the 'circus' into an effective financial show. (FOCA). Mosley later became FIA president and that was the most notorious time of their partnership, but it had earlier done nothing but good for the teams, which is the reason why he has often been held in high regard.

The later years were much more pivotal in creating issues and the Mosley years at the FIA were by far the most tumultuous of the Bernie Max association.

[Mike Harte]

For those interested, Mr E's TV series starts next Thursday, 16th Nov, in the UK on the Quest channel at 10 P.M.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

For those interested, Mr E's TV series starts next Thursday, 16th Nov, in the UK on the Quest channel at 10 P.M.

Thanks for the heads up about that Mike, I'll set my recorder.

[Mike Harte]

I must say that I am enjoying the "Lucky" series, which is reminding me about the past life F1, although I can't make up my mind whether it is biased towards Mr E and his vision or memory of the times or if it is a true representation of what actually happened back then.

It might help me make my mind up when the series starts showing what transpired in later years, as the last episode covered the start of the FISA vs FOCA period, and my memory is not that good any more to accurately remember some of those times; I was too busy working!

[S griffin]

It’s hard to tell with Bernie. I’d take a lot of it with a pinch of salt and just enjoy watching some old footage of F1 that’s on there

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I must say that I am enjoying the "Lucky" series, which is reminding me about the past life F1, although I can't make up my mind whether it is biased towards Mr E and his vision or memory of the times or if it is a true representation of what actually happened back then.

It might help me make my mind up when the series starts showing what transpired in later years, as the last episode covered the start of the FISA vs FOCA period, and my memory is not that good any more to accurately remember some of those times; I was too busy working!

I am currently reading 'No Angel - the secret life of of Bernie Ecclestone' by Tom Bower. (I'm reading it quite slowly as there is a lot of detail to take in and I want to savour it!). Purely by coincidence a lot of what's being shown in 'Lucky' is exactly what I have read recently in the (fascinating) book!

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I am currently reading 'No Angel - the secret life of of Bernie Ecclestone' by Tom Bower. (I'm reading it quite slowly as there is a lot of detail to take in and I want to savour it!). Purely by coincidence a lot of what's being shown in 'Lucky' is exactly what I have read recently in the (fascinating) book!

Viv, is the book an authorised version; not all Bower's books are?

[midgetman]

I think a lot of them are not approved by the subject, IIRC. Should be warts and all then!

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