Well as the Season Comes to an end, Let's discuss next year

[grichie87]

Where is the action next season ??? let all play nicely please

[andy97]

Who knows but I think it might be a struggle for some series & some circuits. I think that the financial crunch has hit motorsport a bit later than elsewhere but it seems to be starting to bite now with (subjectively) lower grids in many series this year. In previous years some higher cost series have sufferred a bit but people have moved down to cheaper series & they have therefore appeared to prosper. That option may not be relevant any more.

Circuit costs are also rising & I'm not sure that all circuits will be able to fill all their days unless they lower prices.

[chezza]

With the BARC SEC TinTops introducing the "production class" hopefully we'll be offering an even lower priced opportunity to go racing, but I think your right Andy, the crunch does seem to have taken its time to hit motorsport, but I think we're right in it at the moment, fingers crossed we'll all be able to ride it out.

[Al Weyman]

When has production racing ever been cheaper? I find that sort of stuff wide open to cheating.

[Tim Falce]

I see there's yet another series starting next year with the V8s. Do we need yet another race series when some of the ones we already have are failing?

[chezza]

Well with less modifications and less highly strung cars surely it has to be less expensive? Maybe cheap wasn't the right word. If regulations are strongly policed in the paddock then cheating shouldn't be an issue.

[Paceracing]

Hi Al,

To be honest, people will always cheat. You only have to read Race Car Engineering to see that. In Club racing, its a piece of pi55 to cheat and not get caught but why bother? Without the pressure of big money that drives that sort of behaviour, the only motivation to cheat at club level is personal satisfaction to win but if you have cheated, the victory will be hollow so why bother? People who cheat always get caught sooner or later, sometimes it takes years though.

Cheers,

Jason.

[Al Weyman]

The remit behind the V8's is to bring out similar cars and give value for money racing, if other series cannot fill grids and give value for money then its a good thing surely. Its only a 5 round series for a bit of fun anyhow and I will do some or all the rounds and be selective of other races I do with regular championships based purely on circuits I like and are within a reasonable distance. Thats recession for you. I also have to say I had my seasons best race on Sunday look at my incar vids for the amount of action I enjoyed, if other champiosnhips are failing to deliver then maybe they should go.

My thoughts on production racing is the past failure of similar championships and racing in Road Saloons that were meant to be production and clearly were not as I found out after a season of going nowhere before I sussed out the little grey areas and exploited them like everyone else was.

[tim dodwell]

Road Saloons were never supposed to be Production, Al, only supposed to LOOK standard in the Slick 50 series - you were allowed to do anything not visable on the outside. The Super Road Saloons allowed lots of mods.

[MartinSmith]

The thing is, Andy has hit it on the nail, the current climate is not good for ANYONE....racing is, for most, a hobby, a past time (and realistically....an expensive one at that)

So long as series are different enough then I dont see the problem with them, Bernie must have done something right to have a grid like that first time out, but i do feel that if they are not different enough, all they are doing is killing the sport we love. I think under the surface, a lot of clubs are really feeling it and it may be the case, that there will be a casulty that will make us all sit up and take note and start working TOGETHER instead of against each other. I find it amazing that people think "ohh they are the competition"...ha ha...who is?...historic Motorsport has INCREASED in the last few years, but so have the series but I dont think that they have been specifically different ones. The clubs tend to be the same or the actual series is geared at the same cars and drivers that others have on their books. Competition is a healthy thing, but saturation is not.

With regards to circuit hire, its the same price on a saturday as it is on a thursday etc....and as long a corporate track day organiser (or indeed the circuit itself) can continue to get people to part with their cash for such activities, then the circuit really doesn't care if a club is suffering or not, why would it? As Andy says though....will that continue?, if Im honest I think it will because, if I pay 200 pounds for a track day, I dont need all that MSA Licence stuff etc etc ...I can do all that for a fraction of the cost. Also, you have the likes of MSV providing "champioships"as such for track days, so Im getting to "Race" and not having to pay a fortune....hence you can now become a "Track Day Clerk" ....everyone wants in on that market....including perhaps the Licencing Department at Colnbrook? From the 1st January though Series will have to be registered with the MSA, regardless of Organising Club status or not. So Bernie and the likes of those who do not organise meetings but buy grids off organisers will now have to be registered. is this a way of regulating the amount of new series being started?....mmm I dont know....could be....then again it may just be a way of getting a licence fee from what was an untapped market ....you be the judge.



With regards to next year for The 360, what I will say is that it is bigger and better than 2011 (then again, some of you would say "thats not hard is it Claire" lol.) Its a weekend event now to enable more support races and give great value to the spectator and competitor alike and more news on those support races and other things that are happening there will be issued shortly

[Minicross424]

Well as for my own plans...
Hope to debut the new car but as yet it has not been started.
Push comes to shove I will refresh the engine in the current car and get back out there.
Missed most of this year and ready to get back!

[mig]

I think that it is a shame that motor racing is so political and similar championships could not work together, this would increase grid sizes and lower entry fees.

[Al Weyman]

There are moves afoot to do just this in a small way within the Classic Touring Car Club by opening up the tyre regs to accomadate cars that run in different championships/series. I think this is a good move and a way forward as it means costs can be cut by doing circuits more local to you. Be nice now if we didnt have to belong to all these different clubs and organisations, MSA say we only have to belong to one recognised clubs so why one for every race we enter.

[chezza]

The issue you have with club membership etc is that if you want to run a national B championship you have to belong to the organising club...if you want the members to belong to any club then you have to run it as a national A championship. This then restricts the people that can join in the championship.

[Stratton Mackay]

Personally will be back in the DMN ( or whatever) in the Subaru

New and improved, no more power but prettier than ever !!!!!!

[grichie87]

Originally Posted by Stratton Mackay

Personally will be back in the DMN ( or whatever) in the Subaru

New and improved, no more power but prettier than ever !!!!!!

The DMN or your car ?
Any ideas on rule changes, classes, venues for next year ??

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by chezza

The issue you have with club membership etc is that if you want to run a national B championship you have to belong to the organising club...if you want the members to belong to any club then you have to run it as a national A championship. This then restricts the people that can join in the championship.

Well hold on, what you can do is what we did, we give membership to anyone who enters, thereby, we can run on a Clubman permit. 750 do the same thing with the Birkett, its only when you get down to the event being part of an invited clubs series that they need to be their members, but even then, the organising club could give membership to the invited club free or for a nominal £1 each.

[grichie87]

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

Well hold on, what you can do is what we did, we give membership to anyone who enters, thereby, we can run on a Clubman permit. 750 do the same thing with the Birkett, its only when you get down to the event being part of an invited clubs series that they need to be their members, but even then, the organising club could give membership to the invited club free or for a nominal £1 each.

Interesting, £1 membership to the clubs ummm

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by grichie87

Interesting, £1 membership to the clubs ummm

Ours was five pounds....but we dropped it and its included for free with the entry now

[chezza]

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

Well hold on, what you can do is what we did, we give membership to anyone who enters, thereby, we can run on a Clubman permit. 750 do the same thing with the Birkett, its only when you get down to the event being part of an invited clubs series that they need to be their members, but even then, the organising club could give membership to the invited club free or for a nominal £1 each.

You can only run a series on a clubmans permit, you can't do that with a registered championship, you have to run it on the permit that the championship is registered for.

And as for clubs giving away memberships free or for little money, I'm sure not many clubs can afford to do that and also what about those that have paid full price for their membership, its hardly fair on them.

Chris_W with regard to the regs for the TinTops...watch this space!

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by chezza

You can only run a series on a clubmans permit, you can't do that with a registered championship, you have to run it on the permit that the championship is registered for.

And as for clubs giving away memberships free or for little money, I'm sure not many clubs can afford to do that and also what about those that have paid full price for their membership, its hardly fair on them.

Chris_W with regard to the regs for the TinTops...watch this space!

Ok Chezza tell me what runs on Nat A now?....not alot, there is no need, the majority run on a Nat B permit, its why we are getting fewer and fewer clerks rising up the chain, because, there arnt enough mneetings for them to get signatures for their Nat A (Unless they are MSVR or BRSCC) which is great for them, but not so for anyone else, you can now run NEAFP on a clubman permit (we did this year) so I dont need to go up to Nat B even and one thing I think is certain, you will have two levels soon, National and International, that will be it!

As is a common joke around certain circles, there is a certain gentleman who runs a club (I may have mentioned it before in this thread) and he would gladly run the F1 GP on a clubman permit if he could!, if you have Track Day Championships Chezza, you can have Clubman ones as well.

And what do clubs need membership fees for?...and why not then include and cost your entry fee accordingly?...surely that is fairer? If someone enters two cars into an event, they pay TWO entry fees...a portion of which is attributed to club running costs ....if someone doesnt enter the event, they dont pay anything....I think you will find that a hell of a lot of competitors would prefer that.

The only reason why people say things cant be done is because its the "we've always done it this way"...and as Andy has stated and I believe he may be right....somethings got to give and if its a club because they are charging 95 quid "registration fees" (please tell me WHAT costs 95 quid to register?...the club to register is two thirds of that annually....I suppose it might be all the paperwork and memo pads that need to be purchased or supported?...ha ha..) .its the twenty FIRST century! get a grip clubs! go back to providing value for money to your CUSTOMERS (your members) and get a reality check on the fact that its the 21st century and people dont want all that rubbish.

even if 360 ran 20 races a year I would not charge "membership" i tried it and it is a complete waste of time, this year, we set the price and in that entry is a small amount that is ringfenced for admin costs (like stamps etc) its fair because Everyone who is at the event pays what they should...and poor old driver b whose car blew up on day one of the season...hasnt paid for something that he hasnt used!

[Chris_w]

Originally Posted by chezza

And as for clubs giving away memberships free or for little money, I'm sure not many clubs can afford to do that and also what about those that have paid full price for their membership, its hardly fair on them.

Would be good to see more weekend/one off memberships offered, would encourage more people to dip into a visiting championship if, as LancsBreaker says above, there are a lot of racers who are looking to keep travel costs to a minimum. The series gets bigger grids and more variety, and we get more choice or who to race with without getting clobbered for multiple annual membership fees.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by chezza

The issue you have with club membership etc is that if you want to run a national B championship you have to belong to the organising club...if you want the members to belong to any club then you have to run it as a national A championship. This then restricts the people that can join in the championship.

If its an MSA thing then someone needs to tell them it has to change as do a lot of things if the sport is to survive. Lets stop them making excuses and putting obstacles in the way at every corner and do something about it.

Didnt see you post Claire when I posted but yes 100% agree, all of the race championships/series/events are going to need people in to compete so lets all make a concerted effort for that to be easier and less costly.

[STEVED]

The Season finished, i havent started yet could we rewind back to March please.

This new production series should prove to be a cheaper way of getting involved with Motorsport Mr Parkins entered his Proton Satria production car in the Tintops last weekend runing borrowed worn std road tyres.
what were the costs? Overalls, Helmet and gloves buying and preping the car £2500 although not blisteringly quick at 103.1 second lap this was his first ever race.

[Chris_w]

Originally Posted by STEVED

This new production series should prove to be a cheaper way of getting involved with Motorsport

I haven't seen or heard anything about this new Production class, are there any regs or more information online?