Well as the Season Comes to an end, Let's discuss next year

[andy97]

Claire, i think we mostly agree with each other, however wrt timing TSL are a company and are in it to make money; personaly at the very amateur level of motorsport I take part in I would be happy to take my chances with a "Plum Pudding" approach to time keeping.

I appreciate that some of the £22 per person per meeting paid to the MSA is insurance but how much of it, & how much pays for the resst of the MSA overheads that we seem to have no control over.

I agree that circuit infrastructure has improved & needs to be paid for but I forsee a day in the not too distant future where many of the clubs "ordinary" races take place at the cheaper circuits such as Mallory, Pembrey, Anglesey, Lydden, Stowe because the circuit hire charges at the "main" venues will be unaffordable.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by andy97

I agree that circuit infrastructure has improved & needs to be paid for but I forsee a day in the not too distant future where many of the clubs "ordinary" races take place at the cheaper circuits such as Mallory, Pembrey, Anglesey, Lydden, Stowe because the circuit hire charges at the "main" venues will be unaffordable.

Agreed Andy but three of the circuits that you use as examples above, suffer from poor entry levels because they are perceived as being 'at the other end of nowhere' and cost as much to get there as any saving on entry fees.

[andy97]

Agreed, John, but if the club isn't prepared/ able to take the financial risk of getting full grids at one of the "main" circuits, it will put on cheaper events (& the circuit hire fees are much cheaper) at the "second tier" circuits (no direspect intended) and transfer the risk to the competitor in terms of travel costs. Maybe more regional series will result.

Maybe club racers will have to travel to get their "drug" but the point is that it will be their personal choice & not the clubs responsibility to take that risk.

Personally, I'm already at the stage where if there was a 6-8 race regional race series in the Midlands for saloons that just took in Mallory with one event at Donington or Silverstone, it would make perfect sense to me.

[Al Weyman]

(Al - I've read you post but how would you feel if you went to, say, Snetteton, raced and then we said "sorry Mr Weyman, your transponder wasn't working and you're not in the results")

John it wouldnt be a problem if thats what I agreed to accept, its highly unlikely anyhow and if it did happen would probably been down to me in some way.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

John it wouldnt be a problem if thats what I agreed to accept, its highly unlikely anyhow and if it did happen would probably been down to me in some way.

........ and yet you were very critical of the 'fairness' of rolling starts.

Not looking for a fight Al and i think you're trying to wind me up anyway

[johngee]

Originally Posted by andy97

Agreed, John, but if the club isn't prepared/ able to take the financial risk of getting full grids at one of the "main" circuits, it will put on cheaper events (& the circuit hire fees are much cheaper) at the "second tier" circuits (no direspect intended) and transfer the risk to the competitor in terms of travel costs. Maybe more regional series will result.

Maybe club racers will have to travel to get their "drug" but the point is that it will be their personal choice & not the clubs responsibility to take that risk.

Personally, I'm already at the stage where if there was a 6-8 race regional race series in the Midlands for saloons that just took in Mallory with one event at Donington or Silverstone, it would make perfect sense to me.

I certainly agree with you about competitors becoming travel sensitive. I also think that 'series', particularly regionally based (which people can 'dip in and out' of), will become more attractive than championships, which require extensive travel - hence the sudden MSA interest in 'series'?

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by andy97

Agreed, John, but if the club isn't prepared/ able to take the financial risk of getting full grids at one of the "main" circuits, it will put on cheaper events (& the circuit hire fees are much cheaper) at the "second tier" circuits (no direspect intended) and transfer the risk to the competitor in terms of travel costs. Maybe more regional series will result.

Maybe club racers will have to travel to get their "drug" but the point is that it will be their personal choice & not the clubs responsibility to take that risk.

Personally, I'm already at the stage where if there was a 6-8 race regional race series in the Midlands for saloons that just took in Mallory with one event at Donington or Silverstone, it would make perfect sense to me.

Andy

Thing is, Competitors prefer the "BIG" circuits. If I were to say I have the 360 at Brand Hatch (Long) circuit then I am sure (indeed I know) that I would have more interest from them than at say Anglesey or Outen (the reason why the Spa six hour is so popular is because.....its at SPA!)

We are singing from the same hymn sheet but the thing is (and this links to an earlier post by me) that people love certain circuits OVER what the event actually is and thats why I believe the curcuits should be MADE to "offer" noisey days and extended days etc to the relevant clubs to allow them to create the event what the CUSTOMERS want. If I put 360 at Brands (long) or Dony or Silverstone I know I would get another five entries STRAIGHT OFF, done end off, but Brands on ly have a certain amountg of days they can use the long circuit and guess who gets them (Hello Alan x)

[andy97]

John

Competitors do prefer the big circuits, me included. But I'd rather race at Mallory (or even Stowe) than not at all.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by johngee

........ and yet you were very critical of the 'fairness' of rolling starts.

Not looking for a fight Al and i think you're trying to wind me up anyway

Getting left up for 500 yards behind a slow moving novice racer before I am allowed to go is hardly in the same context John! I have no problem with the rollers either way they are done but think it should be made clear if a car towards the end of the pack cannot or doesnt want to keep up then you are at libity to overtake. The V8 race roller was fine because everyone knew what they were doing.

Claire I have now raced on the new 200 and 300 at Snett and to be honest I dont think Brands GP has much to offer over them now and if the Snett race was say £50 cheaper (normal club race) I would prefer to go to Snett.

I think at the route of all this is MSA and they need to do something as its their livelyhood as well, stop all this seat belt and overall nonscence for starters. And as for ARDs I have seen no improvement in standards since that was introduced, if you want to do that reclassify BTCC as a semi contact sport and be done. I think now there is so much put in the way of new drivers to the sport or old ones just wanting to go out now and then that its becoming a problem. I have a mate for example he will be doing the charity day at Snett but I tried to get him to do the V8 race in his wonderful Rover SD1 and he would have until he realised his suit and belts are out of date, he needs a medical etc etc so its just simply not worth it thats what needs addressing.

[johngee]

You're in trouble Andy - it was actually Claire who said that ....... but I'm sure she'll let you off

Al, You're so easy to wind up as you always rise to the bait

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Getting left up for 500 yards behind a slow moving novice racer before I am allowed to go is hardly in the same context John! I have no problem with the rollers either way they are done but think it should be made clear if a car towards the end of the pack cannot or doesnt want to keep up then you are at libity to overtake. The V8 race roller was fine because everyone knew what they were doing.

Claire I have now raced on the new 200 and 300 at Snett and to be honest I dont think Brands GP has much to offer over them now and if the Snett race was say £50 cheaper (normal club race) I would prefer to go to Snett.

I think at the route of all this is MSA and they need to do something as its their livelyhood as well, stop all this seat belt and overall nonscence for starters. And as for ARDs I have seen no improvement in standards since that was introduced, if you want to do that reclassify BTCC as a semi contact sport and be done. I think now there is so much put in the way of new drivers to the sport or old ones just wanting to go out now and then that its becoming a problem. I have a mate for example he will be doing the charity day at Snett but I tried to get him to do the V8 race in his wonderful Rover SD1 and he would have until he realised his suit and belts are out of date, he needs a medical etc etc so its just simply not worth it thats what needs addressing.

Ok lets get back to the subject and then really, this thread has been hijacked because it should now be callede " ALL THAT IS WRONG WITH MOTORSPORT"

1)Al I'm glad to hear you prefer Snett, I shall expect your entry to the 360 or support races within the next 10mins !!! ha ha Perhaps the tide is turning Al, I love Snett, I always will, but then again, I have only driven in anger at Brands and THAT is a lovely circuit, Snett I just did the pace lap on the 360, but, I have a place in my heart for the East of England Circuit...it has Endurance history and I am proud to say its the first circuit I ever drov eon at 17 (yes seventeen) and the first circuit I ever got involved with Orgainsing Race Meetings ...I LOVE THAT PLACE ....but I am a rare breed.

2) Andy, you and I think along the same lines......apart from Sports cars! (ha Ha)

[Podd37]

One thing I see from this thread is the number of people only able or wanting (due to time/money/family restrictions, fill in as required) to do a small number of events during a year. Maybe a club running just say 3 or 4 events at the smaller circuits a year is required rather than 10 events. With classes based on times rather than strict, difficult to enforce tech regs. Less events would surely mean bigger grids as most people with cars would still like to compete. Yes the club wont have 15 full time staff etc but grassroots is what most of us are about.
Go on Claire, you love my ideas...!!

Oh and back on track, its the 360 and the (hopefully) back on Phoenix Park races for me next year, with maybe a hilclimb thrown in for good measure.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by Podd37

One thing I see from this thread is the number of people only able or wanting (due to time/money/family restrictions, fill in as required) to do a small number of events during a year. Maybe a club running just say 3 or 4 events at the smaller circuits a year is required rather than 10 events. With classes based on times rather than strict, difficult to enforce tech regs. Less events would surely mean bigger grids as most people with cars would still like to compete. Yes the club wont have 15 full time staff etc but grassroots is what most of us are about.
Go on Claire, you love my ideas...!!

Oh and back on track, its the 360 and the (hopefully) back on Phoenix Park races for me next year, with maybe a hilclimb thrown in for good measure.

you know that you have an entry come what may....just say....for the 360....it is your "germ of an idea " xxx

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by andy97

John

Competitors do prefer the big circuits, me included. But I'd rather race at Mallory (or even Stowe) than not at all.

I must be getting old. I'd rather not race than p155 round on those small tracks, I suppose I've been really lucky racing on some mega circuits.

But...that's me personally talking it's not knocking anyone else who enjoys it so please don't flame me!

My season outlined above sums up my philosophy, racing is so expensive, si time intensive, that just a few high quality weekends at high quality circuits with loads of track time float my boat.

And anyone who doesn't know where your money goes should come to Clay Pigeon or Llandow kart tracks to see what racing was like when I started! It's a different world (although Clay does have live timing...whoops, promised not to mention the T word....)

[SFurness]

Hi,


As we are now on page six of "Lets discuss next year" is anybody going to discuss next year ?


To start it off.


As this has been my worse year (humble self employed) since the dawn of time next year may be a sabbatical.

However I will renew my licence and join my club and hope for better times.

You never know.

Steve

[Al Weyman]

OK well my plans are to do Bernies V8's if it delivers what it promises (5 rounds) and some odd rounds with CTCRC but only those within a reasonable distance (around 100 miles each way max).

[Al Weyman]

And I will add thats only if business picks up as its on the floor at the moment and I wont be wasting money on this sport it its not coming in, we all have priorities.

[Podd37]

Time to switch to a small engined race-car Al....much cheaper on fuel!!

[Al Weyman]

Yes but not that much and the parts are three times the price! I can buy a set of Carillo type H beam rods for around £250 for 8 I couldnt buy one for a Pinto engine for that sort of money, same as pistons, set of forged Icons with rings and pins etc £300, Steel Eagle crank, £350, front wing £185 and available as are all the panels, need I go on??? My cars burn a litre a minute on average so work it out, I know a good RS2000 on 50 Dellortos won't do that much better.

[Flat Out Farr]

Originally Posted by SFurness

Hi,


As we are now on page six of "Lets discuss next year" is anybody going to discuss next year ?


To start it off.


As this has been my worse year (humble self employed) since the dawn of time next year may be a sabbatical.

However I will renew my licence and join my club and hope for better times.

You never know.

Steve

Thank you for raising the point that everyone has gone completely off thread !! Why is it people have a knack of running with red herrings?

I can back up what Steve has said as us poor construction professionals are really having a hard time.

Steve, I am in the UK at the minute. Will PM you.

I will be attending as many meetings as possible, even if it is in the capacity of spanner-man etc.

[IAN #51]

As for plans for next year in very much the theme that this went off-topic im looking at racing with the BARC North West Championship to minimise traveling costs plus a Championship that has Oulton has its home circuit cant be bad.

Just hope i can get approval for the car

Ian

[Paceracing]

Originally Posted by Flat Out Farr

I will be attending as many meetings as possible, even if it is in the capacity of spanner-man etc.

Bloody scary thought!

[Flat Out Farr]

Originally Posted by Paceracing

Bloody scary thought!

It's OK; Hallowen was the other day so I won't be wearing the Ugly mask again

Anyway, someone has got to make sure you don't eat too many pasties and increase your lap time !!!

[SFurness]

Has anyone seen Chris without an ugly mask on ??

[Flat Out Farr]

Originally Posted by SFurness

Has anyone seen Chris without an ugly mask on ??

Cheeky git!
Remember, I have seen you naked when we went diving 35 years ago @ Plymouth