LM24 Waivers

The Badger · 15 Jun 2010, 19:25 (Ref:2712763)

I met up with some old germen journalists after the race , and we were talking about car waivers , they told me some very disturbing rules .

Ferrari F430 races with no waiver
Porsche 997 racer with 1 waiver
BMW E92 races with 26 waivers
Corvette C6 GT2 races with 47 waivers .

Can someone please explain why a team is let off with so many waivers ., coz in confused !!!

Victor_RO · 15 Jun 2010, 19:35 (Ref:2712771)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Can someone please explain why a team is let off with so many waivers ., coz in confused !!!

Until they develop fully-legal parts that replace the ones under waivers, since the cars are pretty much brand-new in GT2 in terms of development life... I guess the ACO allows them to "break" certain rules at first under close scrutiny for the sake of performance balancing.

The Badger · 15 Jun 2010, 19:50 (Ref:2712781)

47 of em !?!?!?

Victor_RO · 15 Jun 2010, 19:53 (Ref:2712783)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

47 of em !?!?!?

(Crude approximation)

There's 4000 bits in a racing engine and probably another 3000 bits in the rest of the car, so waivers for 47 of those... not that high of a percentage. Although waivers tend to be for assemblies of various parts i.e. axles, suspension systems and so on...

NightStalk3r · 15 Jun 2010, 20:09 (Ref:2712792)

The Badger · 15 Jun 2010, 20:10 (Ref:2712794)

If Ferrari & Porsche can do it ,

**joeb** · 15 Jun 2010, 20:11 (Ref:2712795)

What is the 1 waiver the Porsche has?

Victor_RO · 15 Jun 2010, 20:19 (Ref:2712804)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

What is the 1 waiver the Porsche has?

I think it was cylinder liners, but I'm not sure.

**Aysedasi** · 19 Jun 2010, 21:38 (Ref:2714854)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

If Ferrari & Porsche can do it ,

But how many waivers did Ferrari and Porsche have when they first entered their current development line of cars........? We seem to be assuming that none of the recent Ferrari's and Porsches have needed any waivers - that may be true, but do we know for sure?

The Badger · 19 Jun 2010, 23:06 (Ref:2714885)

Im not sure about that Ayse . But it appears that the ALMS needs their (Corvette & BMW) efforts , hence so many waivers .

Im sure Ferrari & Porsche had more than a couple of waivers , but 47 ..... gimme a break !!!

**Aysedasi** · 20 Jun 2010, 07:11 (Ref:2714946)

True enough - 47 does sound a tad excessive!

Le Vieux · 21 Jun 2010, 09:04 (Ref:2715542)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

What is the 1 waiver the Porsche has?

The whole car?

gwyllion · 21 Jun 2010, 09:14 (Ref:2715547)

Porsche have the luxury to build a special road car as homologation basis for their GT2 car: the 911 GT3 RS. I would not call it a homologation special because it is not produced in limited numbers, but it is pretty close. So it is quite logical that the GT3 RSR does not need as many waivers as e.g., the "mass production" BMW M3.

The road Corvette Z01 has a completely different engine than the GT2 car: supercharged 6.2 vs NA 5.5. I can imagine that a lot of the waivers are related to the engine.

KA · 21 Jun 2010, 11:56 (Ref:2715632)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Porsche have the luxury to build a special road car as homologation basis for their GT2 car: the 911 GT3 RS. I would not call it a homologation special because it is not produced in limited numbers, but it is pretty close. So it is quite logical that the GT3 RSR does not need as many waivers as e.g., the "mass production" BMW M3.

...although BMW have been no strangers to the homologation special route in the past- isn't that pretty much where the 'M3' series started, with the original E30 back in 1986/7?. I wonder if they'd do the same now if it was deemed neccessary...?

AstonGeoff · 21 Jun 2010, 12:05 (Ref:2715644)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

True enough - 47 does sound a tad excessive!

But from a rumour I heard a few years back, pretty much the whole C5R was a waiver.....

andy_b · 21 Jun 2010, 19:42 (Ref:2715950)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Im sure Ferrari & Porsche had more than a couple of waivers , but 47 ..... gimme a break !!!

Ferrari doesnt have any waivers, I asked the team earlier this year for a feature on Speedhunters

Victor_RO · 21 Jun 2010, 19:46 (Ref:2715953)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy_b

Ferrari doesnt have any waivers, I asked the team earlier this year for a feature on Speedhunters

Right now they don't, but what about earlier in the 430's development cycle? That's what we don't know. And also, I'd be curious to hear how many waivers the 458 GT2 will have when it hits the track.

gwyllion · 21 Jun 2010, 20:02 (Ref:2715965)

The 430 is very competitive without waivers. So what makes you think they will need waivers to be competitive with the 458?

**Aysedasi** · 21 Jun 2010, 20:16 (Ref:2715978)

I don't know a lot about this (not being terribly technically minded), but I didn't think it was a case of being competitive without waivers? Isn't it a case of being within the rules without waivers?

Victor_RO · 21 Jun 2010, 20:34 (Ref:2715995)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The 430 is very competitive without waivers. So what makes you think they will need waivers to be competitive with the 458?

It's a new car. Also, they might be taking some development shortcuts that need waivers, because at least according to RLM, the 458 GT2 project is lagging behind schedule for a track debut at Sebring.

Although, since the 2010-spec 430 doesn't have waivers, I'd expect some waivers required for the initial-spec 458, but perhaps not as many as the BMW or the Vette.

arakis · 21 Jun 2010, 20:39 (Ref:2715997)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

It's a new car. Also, they might be taking some development shortcuts that need waivers, because at least according to RLM, the 458 GT2 project is lagging behind schedule for a track debut at Sebring.

Although, since the 2010-spec 430 doesn't have waivers, I'd expect some waivers required for the initial-spec 458, but perhaps not as many as the BMW or the Vette.

so what if its a new car from what i have seen this year there is no need to rush the 458 since the 430 is more then capable of wining, and it is not the ferrari way to take shortcuts, they didnt do it with the 360 gtc, nor with the 430gtc nor with the 430gte,

and since 458 bring new technologies witch can olny make it faster and are compleatly legal, i don't see any reason for waivers. maybe a few, but nowere near as 47 or 23 like bmw and the corvette

The Badger · 22 Jun 2010, 00:34 (Ref:2716104)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy_b

Ferrari doesnt have any waivers, I asked the team earlier this year for a feature on Speedhunters

Im aware of that , read my first post , #1 .

I ment to say that at some stage the F430 had waivers , but not 47 .

The Badger · 22 Jun 2010, 00:36 (Ref:2716105)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

according to RLM, the 458 GT2 project is lagging behind schedule for a track debut at Sebring

From what I have heard , the car was supposed to be late , but now its back on schedule again ..... got that from some journalists while at Le Mans .

Guess time will tell .

**Aysedasi** · 22 Jun 2010, 19:39 (Ref:2716510)

Here's an exclusive shot of the latest Porker wa(i)ver.....

gwyllion · 23 Jun 2010, 11:38 (Ref:2716805)

John Brooks knows a bit more about the Corvette waiver controversy:

Quote:

There was much talk of the number of waivers that the ACO had allowed on the car, 47 I believe. The most significant that emerged from the fog was that the C6.R ZR1 cars were both running a Bosch direct injection system, giving nearly two laps fuel advantage over the other GT2 cars.............15.6 laps against 14. For 2011 all the GT2 waivers will be made public, so this sort of surprise will not happen again.

source: http://speedhunters.com/archive/2010...s-gt-wars.aspx