Rivals protest Ferrari's rear wing... - Page 2

mstar · 12 Mar 2006, 22:53 (Ref:1545575)

well reading the article on autosport and pat is a respected person and i do not dispute what he is saying i must say ferarri have found lots of speed in the winter. But i remember BAR had a flex rear wing too and ferrari complained and BAR had to remove it or something in 2004.

Maybe ferrari have bent the rules? or they come up with a more clever way of doing it???

Sodemo · 12 Mar 2006, 22:56 (Ref:1545581)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstar

well reading the article on autosport and pat is a respected person and i do not dispute what he is saying i must say ferarri have found lots of speed in the winter. But i remember BAR had a flex rear wing too and ferrari complained and BAR had to remove it or something in 2004.

Maybe ferrari have bent the rules? or they come up with a more clever way of doing it???

Well, to quote Pat, he "know exactly" what Ferrari have done, so if this is indeed the case, then you can expect the other teams to be track testing their "new" rear wings in the next few weeks...

Hein · 13 Mar 2006, 11:17 (Ref:1547017)

Of course they are complaining. They are all scared *&%%less that The Red Baron on his Prancing Horse will be giving them trouble.

Russ-Turner · 13 Mar 2006, 15:13 (Ref:1547191)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

One thing that I noticed over the years is that whenever another team protests about something that Ferrari came up with that's seemingly illegal, nothing is being done about it and it's swept under the rug.

But when Ferrari protest about something from another team, the FIA seem to fall over themselves in an effort to quickly ban whatever Ferrari seem to protest..

I'm sure you have plenty of examples to back this tripe up.

**Adam43** · 19 Mar 2006, 06:54 (Ref:1552523)

(pinch os salt, based on a cry wolf philosophy):

ITV are saying that 8 other teams are to protest Ferrari over the front wing after the race...

No other information at the moment.

**Adam43** · 19 Mar 2006, 07:00 (Ref:1552526)

Martin, with obvious DC bias

, is saying they may protest, but that it is more of a "sort it for next race". There is also a question over some part of McLaren's wing.

That it toned down from what was said originally.

Hugh Jarce · 19 Mar 2006, 09:23 (Ref:1552586)

Didn't Renault's wing flex quite a bit last season.

It's all 'girls with handbags' - two more races and they'll all have them.

Having said that I thought it was rough when Renault's old grid sensitive launch control was banned - that was just too good.

Sodemo · 19 Mar 2006, 11:11 (Ref:1552629)

Anything which reduces drag is bad for the "racing", less drag means less slipstream, I hope its banned for both sporting, technical and safety reasons.

If you have a wing (front or rear) which flexes, doesn't this make it rather unpredictable in terms of the amount of grip you will have? At 120Mph you could have full downforce, you enter a fast corner at 160Mph, and you will find that your rear end has lost grip due to the wing flexing...?

I guess if both front and rear wings flexed in unison, then this wouldn't be a problem.

shambles · 19 Mar 2006, 11:13 (Ref:1552631)

I think if it's outside of the sporting regulations, then they have every right indeed to press for a banning... It obviously produced the Scuderia with a great advantage passing down that main straight.

What's confusing me is; if Red Bull aren't protesting, they why are STR?

brands · 19 Mar 2006, 11:20 (Ref:1552634)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin-1

I think if it's outside of the sporting regulations, then they have every right indeed to press for a banning... It obviously produced the Scuderia with a great advantage passing down that main straight.

What's confusing me is; if Red Bull aren't protesting, they why are STR?

I heard it was 8 teams that protested, so Ferrari and the 2 RB teams didn't ?

shambles · 19 Mar 2006, 11:23 (Ref:1552637)

I may have been wrong, but from I have gathered (albeit scantily) I thought it was 9 teams, and STR were pressing a protest. Can anyone help confirm this for me?

If your right Brands, please accept my apologies

Gt_R · 19 Mar 2006, 12:03 (Ref:1552653)

It's ridiculous.

Last weekend, rivals complained about Ferrari's rear wings... and FIA checked it and okay-ed it. This weekend, rivals complain about Ferrari's front wing.

And to form a team of 8, pressuring FIA to do something about Ferrari otherwise they will file an official complaint is as good as forcing FIA to find fault with Ferrari (even if there is none) and blemish Ferrari, regardless of whether or not Ferrari's part is in line with the rules.

Let's just put it this way, both the front and rear wings are clearly seen by the cameras. If it's against the rules and supposed to give some great advantage, it'd be quite silly to spend so much money on those parts developing it and have it seen by the world after the first practice session, and banned 2 races later.

But alright. Good stuff. The other teams must be really getting good at this group pressure thing.

Sodemo · 19 Mar 2006, 12:13 (Ref:1552657)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gt_R

It's ridiculous.

Last weekend, rivals complained about Ferrari's rear wings... and FIA checked it and okay-ed it.

I seem to recall the exact same thing happened in 1998 with McLaren. The Woking team developed the third brake pedal in consultation with the FIA, only to have the device protested (by Ferrari and others) and banned after Melbourne or possibly Interlagos I cannot recall which.

CombeMarshal · 19 Mar 2006, 12:22 (Ref:1552661)

That front wing top element was moving loads under load, good job of the broadcaster to use the camera on the nose to show it so often!
Nothing will Happen the FIAt don't have big enough balls to upset MS!!

You can easily see the top element coming from it central mount and twisting under load

**touringlegend** · 19 Mar 2006, 12:24 (Ref:1552664)

I was sitting watching the qualifying yesterday when they went onboard with Schumacher, and I thought, hey that wing seems to be flexing outwards under load. Strangely enough it didn't seem to do it to the same extent today.

maltafan · 19 Mar 2006, 12:44 (Ref:1552678)

That's a clear pic of ferrari's flexible front wing.

**Adam43** · 19 Mar 2006, 12:54 (Ref:1552686)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gt_R

It's ridiculous.

Last weekend, rivals complained about Ferrari's rear wings... and FIA checked it and okay-ed it. This weekend, rivals complain about Ferrari's front wing.

There is a question about the wings though. That much is obvious. However it is also clear that they pass the FIA tests as they are at the moment.

CombeMarshal · 19 Mar 2006, 13:32 (Ref:1552707)

Quote:

Originally Posted by maltafan

That's a clear pic of ferrari's flexible front wing.

Do you have a pic of the wing at a slower speed?

Look pretty incriminating to me!

mark_l · 19 Mar 2006, 13:35 (Ref:1552708)

The picture posted by maltafan clearly shows the front wing element is only connected to the nose cone at one point, clearly allowing it to pivot at the point. The wing was seen to move on TV and is therefore a moveable aerodynamic device, which is against the regulations.

Will Ferrari be excluded from the Malaysian GP?, they should be but the FIA wont have the guts to do it. Ferrari have already been told not to present the car with the front wing in its current design in Australia but still get away with racing an illegal car in Malaysia and possibly Bahrain.

CombeMarshal · 19 Mar 2006, 13:41 (Ref:1552715)

Thats my point!
you caould clearly see the wing moving out then twisting thus reducing the drag.
They can't tell them not to use it again but not punish them can they??

**Adam43** · 19 Mar 2006, 13:46 (Ref:1552718)

None of the other teams have protested though. It is a debatable point. The FIA have checks, which it passed. Is TV evidence admissible? Perhaps it is better that the matter is cleared up without a lot of mess and the other teams seem happy enough with this as they aren't protesting.

**Adam43** · 19 Mar 2006, 13:54 (Ref:1552721)

It isn't just Ferrari either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autosport

A series of meetings between team principals and senior technical figures have taken place in the Sepang paddock this morning. The cars of three teams, one of which is Ferrari, have been closely examined too.

So the teams have met and talked about it. They are happy with how the FIA is progressing overall. Also it isn't just Ferrari which would mean even more mess.

Perhaps a chat about it, a clarification and move on is the best solution. It is a grey area and it passes the tests, so I feel this cause of action isn't outrageous.

As to the FIA not doing anything, here is their take on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIA to Autosport

We do not comment on any rumour. If there is a problem, there is a procedure through the FIA.

Fair enough and Nick Fry seems to think so even though he thinks it is illegal:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fry

The FIA will clarify the situation before we get to Melbourne. That's what we need. All we asked Charlie Whiting is which interpretation is correct.
...
We have been aware of it for six months, but the situation is very difficult. It is hard for the FIA to measure. It was this weekend that for the first time we got a clear picture from German TV."

It is a difficult situation and one thing is clear - it isn't clear cut. So a backroom clarification is probably best.

CombeMarshal · 19 Mar 2006, 13:58 (Ref:1552728)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

None of the other teams have protested though. It is a debatable point. The FIA have checks, which it passed. Is TV evidence admissible? Perhaps it is better that the matter is cleared up without a lot of mess and the other teams seem happy enough with this as they aren't protesting.

I'm sure tv images are admissable, they are for incidents so can't see why they wouldn't be.

mark_l · 19 Mar 2006, 13:58 (Ref:1552729)

If the teams are so convinced it is illegal, do something about it, put an official protest in.

TV images should be admissable as evidence for the teams as the FIA use TV images to punish the teams.

Basically I think the 'old boys club' is getting together, "I wont protest you over the wing if you don't protest something illegal I might do in the future"

Remember no team protested the BAR car causing the 'Fuelgate' incident but someone had a quite word in the FIA's ear about something suspect with the car.

CombeMarshal · 19 Mar 2006, 13:58 (Ref:1552730)

They need to re write the rule book I think, and this time ditch they grey pen!!

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