Have we experiecned the peak of the ALMS (2008), and now the consistent decline?

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

Don't count on it...The NASCAR empire has too much money and the ALMS leaders have very little in comparison...NASCAR's leaders can just wait this thing out...

The part that I don't understand, is why this ongoing battle is even taking place. NASCAR is a totally different form of racing. Although a small percentage of the fans from both NASCAR and ALMS follow both forms, most of them don't. Why is NASCAR so hell bent on wiping out the ALMS. The ALMS is never going to be a threat to them, in terms of fan support etc.

[Speed-King]

I think many people are too stuck on that "evil empire"-line.
The Frances have been involved in American sportscar racing for a long time, basically since they financially supported John Bishop when he created IMSA in the early 70s.
The Camel title sponsorship for IMSA GT was related to that as well, seeing that Camel and Winston (then of course NASCAR Cup sponsor) are brands of the same company... I also remember reading an article about Jim France being in his childhood a much bigger sportscar than stockcar fan.

And when they took away Daytona from Andy Evans, ALMS was probably just a distant thought at the back of Don Panoz's mind and finally it was Panoz who walked away from the USRRC to found his own series, not the other way around.

All this leads me to believe that the creation of Grand Am was a result of genuine interest in the future of sportscar racing rather than some weird conspiracy to keep ALMS from reaching greatness...
That they would choose NASCAR as a template for their sportscar series was only logical, seeing that in 2002/3, when the concept of the DPs was developed, NASCAR was probably at the peak of its popularity.

[Hugewally]

I'll go out on a limb here and say that anything the France's and NASCAR have done have only been for one motive and it has never been about the racing.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I think many people are too stuck on that "evil empire"-line.
The Frances have been involved in American sportscar racing for a long time, basically since they financially supported John Bishop when he created IMSA in the early 70s.
The Camel title sponsorship for IMSA GT was related to that as well, seeing that Camel and Winston (then of course NASCAR Cup sponsor) are brands of the same company... I also remember reading an article about Jim France being in his childhood a much bigger sportscar than stockcar fan.

And when they took away Daytona from Andy Evans, ALMS was probably just a distant thought at the back of Don Panoz's mind and finally it was Panoz who walked away from the USRRC to found his own series, not the other way around.

All this leads me to believe that the creation of Grand Am was a result of genuine interest in the future of sportscar racing rather than some weird conspiracy to keep ALMS from reaching greatness...
That they would choose NASCAR as a template for their sportscar series was only logical, seeing that in 2002/3, when the concept of the DPs was developed, NASCAR was probably at the peak of its popularity.

By the same token, I think we can agree NASCAR has never had a genuine interest in making IMSA or Grand-Am anything more than a "road racing" series, a couple rungs below the Cup Series.

Don Panoz walked away from the USRRC, a breakaway series from Professional Sports Car (IMSA). When Don saw that the USRRC wasn't going to be the home to manufacturer teams he decided not to invest his money in a series that he didn't believe in the philosophy of. Therefore he worked with Professional Sports Car (IMSA) to create the American Le Mans Series where the manufacturers could come to play. The ALMS wasn't therefore a breakaway series.

Chris

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

The part that I don't understand, is why this ongoing battle is even taking place. NASCAR is a totally different form of racing. Although a small percentage of the fans from both NASCAR and ALMS follow both forms, most of them don't. Why is NASCAR so hell bent on wiping out the ALMS. The ALMS is never going to be a threat to them, in terms of fan support etc.

Although Big Bill has been dead now for apprx. 18 years, anything the France family (NASCAR) does is based on a premise, with its foundation firmly cemented, to when Big Bill was still alive.
The France families like-dislikes for road racing started with the creation of the Daytona Speedway, and then the SCCA crapping on Big Bill which was fundamental in Bill helping with the founding of the IMSA.

In the South, bad blood is forever.
Bob
P.S.--- Early stock car racing had more road races than most realize.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Don Panoz walked away from the USRRC, a breakaway series from Professional Sports Car (IMSA). When Don saw that the USRRC wasn't going to be the home to manufacturer teams he decided not to invest his money in a series that he didn't believe in the philosophy of. Therefore he worked with Professional Sports Car (IMSA) to create the American Le Mans Series where the manufacturers could come to play. The ALMS wasn't therefore a breakaway series.

Chris

Well, then maybe Panoz's philosophy is wrong. ALMS only had enough manufacturers to really create some good racing at two points in time: early on after its creation, more or less as a side effect of the 1998/9 manufacturer war at Le Mans and in the overheated economic climate of 2006 to 2008. Neither of which is likely to return anytime soon as it stands right now. Manufacturers are pulling out of nearly any form of motorsport and in many other disciplines people are realizing that the times of heavy manufacturer involvement in racing might slowly come to a close. Look at the BTCC or FIA GT1. Both have no manufacturer teams and both have a highly exciting new season ahead.
When was the last time we saw 24 GT1 cars in one race? Certainly didn't happen in a race where Corvette Racing was involved...

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Look at the BTCC or FIA GT1. Both have no manufacturer teams and both have a highly exciting new season ahead.
When was the last time we saw 24 GT1 cars in one race? Certainly didn't happen in a race where Corvette Racing was involved...

And at what cost has the 24 car grid been achieved? If indeed it ultimately is achieved.

Firstly this is nothing like endurance racing - This is sprint racing with Grand Touring cars

Secondly the FIA GT2 European Championships looks to have taken a body blow - I await with interest the provisional grid for that one!

If your thing is the bang crash wallop of BTCC then you're welcome to it - As far as I'm concerned its become a caricature of itself - where contact of the damaging and potentially dangerous kind has become the norm - even to the extent that the BTCC is passively marketed on the promise of providing it!

I believe that is a record they will live to regret badly

If that's what you are expecting from FIA GT1 then I hope you're wrong.

If you aren't it will prove to be a VERY expensive first year for all concerned - and would almost certainly lead to a decreasing grid from whatever starting point is achieved as the season progresses.

[ubrben]

I think the ACO are addressing the privateer teams issue in the 2011 regs. LMPC is the blueprint for this, and a decent showing in ALMS this year would a be a great start. LMP2 should become a viable privateer series.

I think the main problem most people have with Grand-Am is the cars. DPs are so damn ugly. I was re-reading Steve Olvey's book the other day and his comments about Nascar's disregard for safety prior to Earnhardt's death make their insistance on massive cockpit superstructures for safety reasons very ironic.

In the end if they'd allowed carbon-tubbed attractive coupe prototypes (or even mettalic tubbed to CN type regs) I think they might have won over more of the purists. Endurance racing is inherently less about wheel to wheel racing and more about strategy and tactics over a long race. For this reason the spectacle and diversity of the cars themselves is crucial. A 20 car ALMS grid with a couple of LMPs, some decent GTs is more interesting than 20 DPs.

Ben

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

Don't count on it...The NASCAR empire has too much money and the ALMS leaders have very little in comparison...NASCAR's leaders can just wait this thing out...

Tim, that very much depends on your definition of "ALMS leaders." If you're willing to expand that outside the "official Panoz" organization and its employees, it's wrong. If three long-term ALMS participant "leaders" were to become vested in the future of IMSA/ALMS, that financial equation is reversed. Until recently, though, they've just wanted to race, and let someone else worry about the stage on which they race. In the recent past, the Don's creation of a committee as a cover against criticism by tracks and manufacturers has put those three individuals "in play" if they want to sieze the moment.

[Jonerz]

Those individuals would be Seth Neiman, Rob Dyson, and Duncan Dayton, right? And if so, the three of them combined, do they really have the financial power to do battle with the likes of NASCAR?

Chris

[Purist]

That's a hard one to say, as you can ask the question, "How much of the financial clout is actually NASCAR's, and how much is really just sponsor dollars?"

Seth had the ability to field three works-supported 911s at a time when he so desired, and had the people to pilot them. Rob has been able to field two prototypes for a decade and a half. Duncan Dayton has a top-notch shop for both current LMPs and historic racers as well. After all, Acura chose his team to field one of their works cars, and Classic Team Lotus is NOT going to trust just anyone with a John Player Special F1 car, especially a Lotus 72 or a Lotus 79. I also wonder whether Jon Field just plays things smart on the management side, and has more in the pocketbook than appearances might indicate. He has run multiple LMP cars at a time at a number of points in the past.

Of course, what would really be nice is another LMP effort spearheaded by PMNA, and run by Roger Penske.

A bit off topic, but, is there any connection between Jon Field and Intersport Racing and Ted Field and Interscope Racing from the old IMSA days?

[trahsub]

From a publicity perspective, it would be great to get a new age Steve Mcqueen or Paul Newman involved with the series. Patrick Dempsy is a good guy, but he hasn't won over the joint hearts of both car guys are their moms just yet, mainly just the moms so far

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by TWK

Tim, that very much depends on your definition of "ALMS leaders." If you're willing to expand that outside the "official Panoz" organization and its employees, it's wrong. If three long-term ALMS participant "leaders" were to become vested in the future of IMSA/ALMS, that financial equation is reversed. Until recently, though, they've just wanted to race, and let someone else worry about the stage on which they race. In the recent past, the Don's creation of a committee as a cover against criticism by tracks and manufacturers has put those three individuals "in play" if they want to sieze the moment.

I was thinking of the Brazelton gang, TWK...I would agree with you when compatitors are factored in...

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Purist

A bit off topic, but, is there any connection between Jon Field and Intersport Racing and Ted Field and Interscope Racing from the old IMSA days?

I don't know why, but I always thought that Ted was Jon's dad. I remember they always ran number 0 and Danny "On the Gas" driving.

DK

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by dxk1

I don't know why, but I always thought that Ted was Jon's dad. I remember they always ran number 0 and Danny "On the Gas" driving.

DK

Yeah! Pretty funky cars, I only know them from GrandTouringPrototype.com and youtube! They ran the 0 and 00 Lolas were they not? I too have wanted to know if they were of kin. Did Jon name the team Intersport coincidentally? Or is it a tip of the hat to Interscope?

Chris

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Yeah! Pretty funky cars, I only know them from GrandTouringPrototype.com and youtube! They ran the 0 and 00 Lolas were they not? I too have wanted to know if they were of kin. Did Jon name the team Intersport coincidentally? Or is it a tip of the hat to Interscope?

Chris

That's what I always thought, that they named the team Intersport as a continuation of the old Interscope, sort of a family thing. I know they also ran Porsches in the late 70s and early 80s with the numbers 0 and 00 but mostly just one car with 0 I believe.

DK