The Real Reason for the decline in Indycar racing?

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by climb

Yes, but if the tobacco ban was cancelled, many a company would surely come back, and the whole industry (not only Indycar, nor mainly) would benefit from that.

If tobacco had stayed, the sport would still be down the tube. The contrast of the effect of losing tobacco money between F1, NASCAR and Indycars shows it wasn't the tobacco. It was the split.

Originally Posted by climb

Are you sure? take a look at this

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81519

Ask him that question 11 months from now. He may still have that answer, but it's clear where his passion is. Since I haven't been watching the IRL at all and very little NASCAR I don't know, but I would bet if you checked which race he was at when the IRL and NASCAR teams were both racing the same day, I bet he was with the Indycar team at least 2:1. That's based on what I noticed back when I was paying attention.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Apologies if you consider all this as an editorial. I think it is a logical conclusion, based on a read of how the alliances have been shaped from both sides of the issue. If you think it will all develop for the best, particularly in the context of the economic climate that surrounds IndyCar racing today, you are an optimist.

And I hope you are right.

I was half way through high school when the White Paper came out, and I cheered. I'm having a major sense of deja vu on this. We all know how things worked out the last time the team owners ran the show. I have no reason to believe it will be any different this time.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by miatanut

I was half way through high school when the White Paper came out, and I cheered. I'm having a major sense of deja vu on this. We all know how things worked out the last time the team owners ran the show. I have no reason to believe it will be any different this time.

It went brilliantly until someone called Tony had a vision .

If the Delta Wing group (and by the sounds of it, Firestone) leave, where are the scab teams for the IRL going to come from? Or could we have a situation akin to the 1979 CART-USAC split?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by climb

Yes, but if the tobacco ban was cancelled, many a company would surely come back, and the whole industry (not only Indycar, nor mainly) would benefit from that.

Actually there is no tobacco ban!

The reason they don't sponsor racing cars or anything else is due to a self imposed ban as part of an agreement with the US government. And part of it is political correctness and PR.

Who knows all that could come back someday.

I'd say if your revenue model was dependent on tobacco revenue you have a crap business model.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by climb

Are you sure? take a look at this

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81519

Dunno, I'm just relaying what others told me. I don't know the man.

It was reported a few years ago in Racer that Grand Am was his new buzz as well.

[ptclaus98]

Chip Ganassi loves whatever he's winning at. If the TCGR boys go 1-2(and 3, crossed fingers) at Indy, he'll say that's his favorite.

[JagtechOhio]

To miatanut: One of the biggest differences is that there are not enough assets today to support one series, never mind two halves.

To Claus: The day the news breaks that Ganassi has hired several top flight engineers and bankrolled them to build a new CoT is the day I will believe that Chip sees Nascar as his priority.

It's his fall back, and a subsidy for the bankroll to run his IndyCar program.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

To miatanut: One of the biggest differences is that there are not enough assets today to support one series, never mind two halves.

Who's talking about two halves? If this showdown happens, it will make 1979 look slow, and that time it was all over in about 6 months. I don't know where The Captain stands on all this, but it sounds like everybody else who matters is in the same camp.

[Purist]

As far as I'm aware, Penske is in the Delta Wing camp, if that answers your question.

[Yannick]

We really should have a positive thread on here about what are the signs of a resurgence in IndyCar racing.

The loss of the Ethanol deal for the sake of Brazilian fuel surely has cost the series on the US market since it's brought in further Brazilian sponsors and drivers. Plus, it has effectively lost the series its then best-of-the-rest team, Rahal. And in the post-unification era at that.

The Versus deal, well, it must have had a similar effect, since TV exposure of the series must be better in Brazil at the time than in the US.

IndyCar surely could work and survive as a Pan-American series, but with only the US, Canada and Brazil taking part, it still misses a lot of markets.
And considering the strong representation of drivers from the 5th continent, a return to Surfers Paradise should happen rather sooner than later to bring back sponsors from that market.

I have not really got an idea on how to stop the sponsorship drain towards NASCAR on the US market, though.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Purist

As far as I'm aware, Penske is in the Delta Wing camp, if that answers your question.

That rebel!

In that case, they have everybody who matters, because they can all see it's headed nowhere good. IMS can try to have a stand-off, or they can look at it as an opportunity to get an albatross off their back and get back to enjoying cashing checks rather than writing them.

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by johntt

It went brilliantly until someone called Tony had a vision

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner!

We really should have a positive thread on here about what are the signs of a resurgence in IndyCar racing.

And that would be what....



HJJ

[Purist]

A title sponsor, an event in Brazil that takes advantage of the presence of the Brazilian drivers in the series (an event that should have a very exciting and enthusiastic atmosphere), and three cars each for Penske and KV. Not to mention, the major owners taking a much greater interest in seeing to the future of the series they participate in.

[JagtechOhio]

From the outside looking in, there is no indication that the team owners did much more than complain and posture...until they assembled a power base to confront the IICS, not cooperatively augment it.

The Brasil race will be a positive, I have said that since the day it was announced, but the promise of a rewarding payday which was used to sell the idea has been broken.

KV and Penske added cars to their inventory from teams who couldn't afford to run them. The overall result is that there is no increase to the number of cars on the grid, and more likely a net decrease.

Sato is likely a better driver than Moraes, who managed third and fourth place finishes last year. Sato won't be able to do much better than that against three Penske and two Ganassi cars. He and Justin Wilson will be racing for "best in class".

The positives are that Honda has not pulled out, Versus has not decided the investment isn't worth the trouble, and Izod is quietly holding station.

And that there will probably be enough entries at each race to avoid conflict with promoter, sponsor, or broadcaster minimum car counts.

So far.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

From the outside looking in, there is no indication that the team owners did much more than complain and posture...until they assembled a power base to confront the IICS, not cooperatively augment it.

I take it you weren't a real big fan of the PPG Indycar World Series with races in the US, Canada, Mexico, Australia, and, um, Brasil, and, um, Japan. Running on ovals, and, um, road courses, and, um, street courses.

I thought the White Paper contained very valid complaints, as have the current owners. When the sport is run for the benefit of a single track in Indiana, instead of a majority of the people active in the sport, the majority will be understandably upset.

[JagtechOhio]

I don't know what your problem is, I am talking about the current ownership and their lack of action in the last three years.

I think you're talking about, um, dead race cars. Ancient racing history doesn't interest me much. History is standing still.

[miatanut]

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

[JagtechOhio]

Those who jump to conclusions, and rely on hackneyed cliches, are morons.

And, um, yeah, I'm talking to you, um, nut.

[ptclaus98]

Guys, lets cool it.

[climb]

Originally Posted by miatanut

Ganassi's the real deal. I remember when he started his own team and declared he would win the championship. I thought that was pretty brash, then he made steady progress and did it. I don't think his competitive fire has gone away at all and he's successful in the business side of things. I think his competitive drive and business sense are the reason he's backing this thing.

Right, but/and similar things can be told about Penske and others; the problem is, will all those solo singers be able to work together and get along in the mid/long term?
Let me me very doubtful about this; as long as everything goes flawless, everybody is happy, but at the first problems (and the will surely be, we're not in Heaven) having one of the competitors making cars for all the others (and getting money from them) could lead to disrupting consequences.
I could cite come possible examples, but I want to keep my post short, anybody can easily imagine them.

I definitely prefer a third and impartial party as a constructor: no conflicts of interest, evenly treatment for all.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by cthib10

The real reason Indycar is declining is because nobody is watching it..

That's not a reason that's a symptom.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Yannick

We really should have a positive thread on here about what are the signs of a resurgence in IndyCar racing.

The loss of the Ethanol deal for the sake of Brazilian fuel surely has cost the series on the US market since it's brought in further Brazilian sponsors and drivers. Plus, it has effectively lost the series its then best-of-the-rest team, Rahal. And in the post-unification era at that.

The Versus deal, well, it must have had a similar effect, since TV exposure of the series must be better in Brazil at the time than in the US.

IndyCar surely could work and survive as a Pan-American series, but with only the US, Canada and Brazil taking part, it still misses a lot of markets.
And considering the strong representation of drivers from the 5th continent, a return to Surfers Paradise should happen rather sooner than later to bring back sponsors from that market.

I have not really got an idea on how to stop the sponsorship drain towards NASCAR on the US market, though.

In its hayday CART was pan American and included Surfer's and Nippon. IT had multi-chassis, engines and tyres and was beginning to rival F1 so much so that Bernie wanted the FIA to restrict licences to drivers wanting to race in CART.

[cthib10]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cthib10
The real reason Indycar is declining is because nobody is watching it..

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

That's not a reason that's a symptom.

How do you figure?
If Indycar didn't have such terrible ratings on a major network it would still be there (instead of VS channel) not to mention sponsors would be jumping at the chance to bring their money to the sport. The lack of viewers is causing the problem in every possible way financially.
More viewers=more sponsors and money

The switch to VS channel really hurt Indycar but it only got to that point after the dive in ratings year after year which in turn caused most sponsors and potential sponsors to look elsewhere. There isn't a major network now that will throw out big bucks to show a series people aren't watching which is why VS ended up with Indycar because the investment would be terrible due to LACK OF VIEWERSHIP. You get people to watch the races and things will start to work themselves out.

[Purist]

What caused the ratings to drop in the first place? That's what he means by nobody watching being a symptom. The people didn't just quit watching for no reason. That reason is the cancer itself; poor viewership is a symptom of that cancer.

[cthib10]

The series can be terrible (ie..Nascar) and can still be a very stable series if people watch it. As long as people watch sponsors and money will be there .

That being said I think the reason people aren't watching is because Indycar is basically turning into Nascar as a spec series just with different looking cars that run faster. We don't need two of the same types of series in this country as you can see not enough fans to go around. If the series stays as in eventually it will be unsustainable financially.