Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > ACO Regulated Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 16 Nov 2020, 16:04 (Ref:4017281)   #101
Deleted
Registered User
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,744
Deleted will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameDeleted will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameDeleted will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameDeleted will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameDeleted will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameDeleted will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameDeleted will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameDeleted will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameDeleted will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/toyota-success-handicap-wec-flawed/4911650/?ic_source=home-page-widget&ic_medium=widget&ic_campaign=widget-1

[Vasselon] described success handicaps as "virtuous" and "better than the Balance of Performance", the means of levelling the playing field that will come into force in the new Le Mans Hypercar class that replaces LMP1 in the WEC for next season.

"Success handicaps are much better than BoP, where there is always a guess and you can win or lose on the margin of error [in the estimation]," said Vasselon.

"Success handicaps are fully objective, there is nothing subjective about it: you score points, you get a handicap.
Deleted is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2020, 12:37 (Ref:4017655)   #102
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,527
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
So, are you agreeing or disagreeing....?
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 18 Nov 2020, 12:39 (Ref:4017656)   #103
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
I think we would rather see LMPs in all their glory by not having that extra ballast. It’s not Toyota’s fault they’ve built a super car
S griffin is online now  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2020, 03:23 (Ref:4017796)   #104
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,374
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Success handicaps are used decently in super gt but those cars are all very close in build vs lmps.
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2020, 07:48 (Ref:4017818)   #105
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 10,912
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Success handicaps are open to abuse in the exact same way BoP is open to abuse lol. BMW tried to game the VLN handicap system but made an error and won a pre-24 race by miles and were then BoP'd down.

Since Le Mans is the middle of the season nobody will want to show their true hand until Le Mans weekend. Which is basically what we see now. Sacrifice a couple of races to win Le Mans.

I'm not a fan of BoP or success handicaps. We're 1 step away from BTCCs pulling the grid out of a hat situation. Which is fine for Race 3 at Croft. For Le Mans it's not ok IMO.
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2020, 08:31 (Ref:4017823)   #106
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
Success handicaps are used decently in super gt but those cars are all very close in build vs lmps.
because in super gt success handicap involves 15 cars in gt500 and about 25-30 in gt300 and this helps to actually create some kind of "balance". In this season WEC success handicap was involving only 3 cars since ginettas performances were a joke, and it decided who was going to win a race before even free practice.
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2020, 10:15 (Ref:4017833)   #107
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
I agree the success ballast should not be used in WEC. Like F1, it's supposed to be top of it's tree and therefore shouldn't try and force close competition. Those that go to Le Mans go there for the spectacle more than anything else
S griffin is online now  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 3 Dec 2020, 23:37 (Ref:4020488)   #108
WyldStallion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 786
WyldStallion should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridWyldStallion should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridWyldStallion should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
My interest in the WEC and LMH going forward starting in 2021 is 100% dependent on will be how the Toyota LMH car looks. If it looks like an LMP1 car I will be disappointed and will tune out. I do like the images of the GR Super Sport online. If we get that with a prototype rear wing then that is fine.

Please Toyota don't screw this up.
WyldStallion is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Dec 2020, 14:45 (Ref:4020600)   #109
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
I actually wouldn't mind if the Toyota looks like a wider (maybe longer) TS050 with DPI-like styling cues. We already have that with DPI. And it's far from an new idea with DPI. Audi did it with the R8R, R8C, R8 and even to a degree with the R10, which borrowed some styling cues from the TT and, in the case of the R10, also the R8 road car, even if mostly in the headlight and taillight design. BMW also did much the same with their LMP cars.

It's not a huge make or break for me. What is is if LMH and LMDH in the new look LMP1 class will be (at least on paper) equal in ACO and IMSA events respectfully. Which, right now, is far from conclusive, with the ACO favoring LMH it seems because of Toyota's and Peugeot's involvement (though Audi and Porsche favoring LMDH right now may help that lobby considerably), and IMSA being on the fence about LMH cars being eligible for LMDH/DPI 2.0.
chernaudi is offline  
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.
Quote
Old 16 Dec 2020, 16:34 (Ref:4023283)   #110
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
First spy pics of the Toyota LMH. Looks very LMP1-evo-ish to me.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2020/1...829ng92TgN9iys
chernaudi is offline  
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.
Quote
Old 16 Dec 2020, 16:49 (Ref:4023286)   #111
Gingers4Justice
Veteran
 
Gingers4Justice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
United Kingdom
Highbury, London
Posts: 3,872
Gingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
That’s prettier than an LMP1. Perhaps it’s lost some of its space-shippiness but I like that a lot!
Gingers4Justice is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Dec 2020, 16:51 (Ref:4023287)   #112
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,527
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
My nipper told me that Toyota had turned up there. (He's there testing with Algarve Pro).
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 16 Dec 2020, 17:00 (Ref:4023290)   #113
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
Given some of the gnashing of teeth over how LMH/LMDH cars might look, for the first one in the flesh, the Toyota actually looks amazing. I know, low res photo and such, but the bench mark has been set. And it does seem that by being 2000mm wide and maybe a bit longer that's offset the wider/taller greenhouse.
chernaudi is offline  
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.
Quote
Old 16 Dec 2020, 17:08 (Ref:4023291)   #114
Gingers4Justice
Veteran
 
Gingers4Justice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
United Kingdom
Highbury, London
Posts: 3,872
Gingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aysedasi View Post
My nipper told me that Toyota had turned up there. (He's there testing with Algarve Pro).
Ooooh an ITK source! Any word of the sound coming out of it (and therefore what might be in the back of it)?
Gingers4Justice is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Dec 2020, 17:09 (Ref:4023292)   #115
Gingers4Justice
Veteran
 
Gingers4Justice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
United Kingdom
Highbury, London
Posts: 3,872
Gingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
Given some of the gnashing of teeth over how LMH/LMDH cars might look, for the first one in the flesh, the Toyota actually looks amazing. I know, low res photo and such, but the bench mark has been set. And it does seem that by being 2000mm wide and maybe a bit longer that's offset the wider/taller greenhouse.
It wouldn’t be a new set of regulations unless we gnashed our teeth on here, only to find we needn’t have.
Gingers4Justice is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Dec 2020, 17:26 (Ref:4023295)   #116
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
It still has the dorsal fin on the engine cover, but at least it's smaller and less obtrusive.
chernaudi is offline  
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.
Quote
Old 16 Dec 2020, 21:27 (Ref:4023329)   #117
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,527
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice View Post
Ooooh an ITK source! Any word of the sound coming out of it (and therefore what might be in the back of it)?
Sadly not. He described the whole Toyota operation as very 'secret squirrel' (hence the one low res photo that DSC obtained). The lad was also busy sorting out the car that was pranged yesterday....
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 17 Dec 2020, 09:05 (Ref:4023378)   #118
GingerPixel
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location:
Manchester, UK
Posts: 240
GingerPixel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridGingerPixel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Seen a lot of comments on how different it looks to the open top road car they ran at LM but I'm not buying it. I think they're pretty close. How much is there in the rules about high downforce bodywork and the potential to cover the thing in winglets?
GingerPixel is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Dec 2020, 09:48 (Ref:4023385)   #119
Pandamasque
Veteran
 
Pandamasque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Ukraine
Kyiv, Ukraine
Posts: 2,203
Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerPixel View Post
Seen a lot of comments on how different it looks to the open top road car they ran at LM but I'm not buying it. I think they're pretty close. How much is there in the rules about high downforce bodywork and the potential to cover the thing in winglets?
They're about as close as Lotus Elise and a Toyota Previa. At best there may be shared drivetrain components located in similar places.
Pandamasque is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Dec 2020, 11:27 (Ref:4023407)   #120
GingerPixel
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location:
Manchester, UK
Posts: 240
GingerPixel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridGingerPixel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm not sure we're looking at the same images, or if one of us is afflicted with gross exaggeration syndrome.
GingerPixel is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Dec 2020, 11:51 (Ref:4023410)   #121
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
It does look more like a widened/maybe somewhat longer/slightly taller LMP1 car. Problem is the photo is so low res you can't make out very many details with certainty. And if Toyota have their way, we won't get high res photos for about another month.

But IMO, it does look quite a bit different than the car they had at LM. To me at least, it looks like a DPI take on it for Hypercar (styling cues, but a pure bred race car otherwise).
chernaudi is offline  
__________________
Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.
Quote
Old 17 Dec 2020, 13:08 (Ref:4023423)   #122
Pandamasque
Veteran
 
Pandamasque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Ukraine
Kyiv, Ukraine
Posts: 2,203
Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerPixel View Post
I'm not sure we're looking at the same images, or if one of us is afflicted with gross exaggeration syndrome.
Can you tell which is the odd one out?

Looks like they didn't even bother changing the TS050 headlights.

I applied mad skills to try and bring the GR Super Sport Concept closer to the TS050 LMH as seen in Algarve. Giorgio Piola, eat your heart out!


If you were to sketch the basic outlines of the two, there would be no lines in common.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
It does look more like a widened/maybe somewhat longer/slightly taller LMP1 car. Problem is the photo is so low res you can't make out very many details with certainty. And if Toyota have their way, we won't get high res photos for about another month.
The livery suggests they're also there to take press photos. Otherwise the car would be in camouflage once again, or bare carbon.

Last edited by Pandamasque; 17 Dec 2020 at 13:14.
Pandamasque is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Dec 2020, 20:06 (Ref:4023488)   #123
joeb
Race Official
Veteran
 
joeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 15,594
joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Hard to tell much of anything from the grainy pics but I kind of like it. It got me thinking, the last Toyota top level "GT" car was widely loved despite not looking like the other street based GT1 cars of the time. It looked like a straight prototype and that was good enough for us back then. Plus, if cost is supposed to be a factor in the new rules, why wouldn't you take what you've learned from the TS050 and apply it to the new car?
joeb is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Dec 2020, 20:44 (Ref:4023499)   #124
Pandamasque
Veteran
 
Pandamasque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Ukraine
Kyiv, Ukraine
Posts: 2,203
Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!Pandamasque has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeb View Post
Hard to tell much of anything from the grainy pics but I kind of like it. It got me thinking, the last Toyota top level "GT" car was widely loved despite not looking like the other street based GT1 cars of the time. It looked like a straight prototype and that was good enough for us back then. Plus, if cost is supposed to be a factor in the new rules, why wouldn't you take what you've learned from the TS050 and apply it to the new car?
Perhaps because it breaks every design rule in the book? Yes, car designers have a set of basic rules following which, one can make a handsome car. GT-One follows practically all of them, that's why people who've never even seen a race car find it attractive. Did at the time and still do. Those prototypes were at worst handsome beasts. Things went wrong towards the mid-2000s due to regs and new aero trends.
Pandamasque is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Dec 2020, 21:30 (Ref:4023506)   #125
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,374
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
I think it looks good from the grainy photo. Longer and a new paint job. Always liked the TS050 headlights too so Im glad they kept them.
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[WEC] Ferrari Hypercar Discussion Mike E ACO Regulated Series 422 22 Feb 2024 18:36
[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules) CTD ACO Regulated Series 8120 9 Nov 2023 22:19
Veloqx Fangio Hypercar discussion Gingers4Justice ACO Regulated Series 16 16 Feb 2022 10:27
[WEC] Aston Martin Hypercar Discussion deggis ACO Regulated Series 175 23 Feb 2020 03:37
[WEC] SCG 007: Glickenhaus Le Mans LMP1 Hypercar Bentley03 ACO Regulated Series 26 16 Nov 2018 02:35


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.