MSA decline some championship permits in 2008

Mark Mitchell · 5 Sep 2007, 10:19 (Ref:2004141)

The MSA have declined permits for the following championships in 2008

SCSA V8 Trophy Championship

BRSCC Club F3 Championship

VSR Super Silhouette Championship

BRSCC Fiat Racing Challenge

http://app.e2ma.net/app/view:Campaig...879a437a5e5930

Bodysnatcher · 5 Sep 2007, 10:35 (Ref:2004160)

No real surprises, but has it not been suggested that if organisers want to be bloody-minded, they can just carry on as before, just not as a MSA recognised championship. (make them a series of one-off challenges)

Surely the BRSCC cannot afford to lose the SCSA championship after just one year at attempting a rescue. They have to be given a bit longer to make or break.

As for the rest, Club F3 have been talking themselves up or down on this forum for quite a while, VSR well, once the club stopped throwing money at it, the drivers went back to their stock car racing roots and finally, did'nt even Autosport, that bastion of non-opinion recently go as far as saying that the FIAT round at Brands was poorly supported (so that means less than 10 starters I guess)

***Chris Y*** · 5 Sep 2007, 10:36 (Ref:2004161)

Those are 'championship permits' which it has declined. The championships named above can still carry on as series.

Ian Sowman · 5 Sep 2007, 11:04 (Ref:2004181)

Yes, an important distinction. Shame the post doesn't mention those that have successfully applied to become championships, only looking at the negative side of things!

chezza · 5 Sep 2007, 11:54 (Ref:2004216)

The artical (if you click the link) does show those that have gained championship status:

The RCCP approved permits for the following new events:

Bike-Sports Championship - 750 MC

Toyota MR2 Championship - 750 MC

Tuscan & Sagaris Challenge - BRSCC

Star of Mallory FF1600 Championship - BARC

BARC/Dunlop Sport Maxx Cup - BARC

(Sponsor) Ginetta G50 Cup - BARC

SRCC Historic Sports 2000 - SRCC

Vredestein/Soilmec JEC Jaguar Saloons - Jaguar Enthusiasts' Club

SEMSEC Single Seater Championship - SEMSEC

Scottish MRC Classic Sports & Saloons Championship - Scottish MRC

Al Weyman · 5 Sep 2007, 12:45 (Ref:2004246)

Not CTRCC Pre-93 then? 4 reserves at Donington on Saturday and 30 plus grids all year still not enough!

Piglet · 5 Sep 2007, 12:55 (Ref:2004256)

It's quite a confusing article isn't it or am I being very stupid??

119 applications received of which 13 were new, 7 refused so 112 permits granted.

4 existing championships are listed as being rejected so presumably a further 3 new applications were rejected but we don't know what they were?

So either CTRCC didn't apply or it was one of the 3 rejected?

I don't know if this is an ongoing process or whether that is it for next year?

Al Weyman · 5 Sep 2007, 13:10 (Ref:2004271)

I have put a post on our club forum highlighting this as I am sure JohnW wants MSA status for his baby.

Ian Sowman · 5 Sep 2007, 13:18 (Ref:2004278)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezza

The artical (if you click the link) does show those that have gained championship status...

I know that Chezza, I just thought the post itself was a bit negative!

JimW · 5 Sep 2007, 14:35 (Ref:2004330)

I thought the post was interesting as it highlighted the significant (and interesting) part of the decisions. (Yes, knowing which new ones had applied and been refused will also be interesting.)

I find it interesting because the willingness or not of the MSA to exercise their powers to control what events run is important if we are ever to get away from dull meetings which do nothing to promote the sport.

I'm sorry, if not surprised, to see the common element of the BRSCC in the rejections.

(And yes, I do understand the modest difference between a championship and a series and the small effect this may have on the running of these races. But it's a start.)

Regards

Jim

JimW · 5 Sep 2007, 14:39 (Ref:2004334)

And perhaps the best news:

Quote:

. . . and the panel has decided that from 2008 the minimum grid level will be raised from 16 to 18 cars. . . .

Going in the right direction - should we be aiming for a higher limit? 22 anyone?

Jim

Cynic · 5 Sep 2007, 14:57 (Ref:2004347)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimW

And perhaps the best news:

Going in the right direction - should we be aiming for a higher limit? 22 anyone?

Jim

I guess that would depend on whether BTCC and F3 are exempt. A 20+ minimum would have had both of them looking nervous in recent years...

Piglet · 5 Sep 2007, 15:26 (Ref:2004361)

To me this is where it gets a bit difficult. Arguably this could be the final blow that kills SCSA and I find it difficult to accept that the MSA has the ability to kill off a commercial organisation as SCSA now is.

I appreciate that they say it's a standalone committee of "peers" but ultimately it's the MSA that sanctions the decision.

I know the argument that too many series split competitors across similar championships meaning that they all have small grids but SCSA doesn't have another championship that it doubles up with and the "entertainment" type approach that is run at Rockingham doesn't happen in the same way anywhere else.

I know many folks have been and I'm sure will continue to try to bring SCSA back to life but without the razmataz of points and championships and leaders I imagine their job will be much more difficult.

JimW · 5 Sep 2007, 15:53 (Ref:2004382)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynic

I guess that would depend on whether BTCC and F3 are exempt. A 20+ minimum would have had both of them looking nervous in recent years...

Yes - so it would!

Jim

COLIN STUBBS · 5 Sep 2007, 15:59 (Ref:2004390)

Al I cant understand that neither.We had 36 starters at Donington and even managed a full grid for a non club race at Cadwell.And the potential for attracting more and more cars,from other championships like Stock hatch,etc,is enormous.Strange how we seem to have been missed out when some of the series included are struggling for numbers....

Al Weyman · 5 Sep 2007, 15:59 (Ref:2004391)

And F1 :-)

Piglet · 5 Sep 2007, 15:59 (Ref:2004392)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimW

Yes - so it would!

Jim

...and I think that adds to my views on the process....

tristancliffe · 5 Sep 2007, 16:22 (Ref:2004413)

What difference will this make for something like ClubF3? Will it mean they have to run MSA 40mm ride heights, or is it more that can't refer to is as a championship?

Me = confused by the difference between series and championship.

Also, in the opposite direction, what will it mean for the SEMSEC single seaters?

Piglet · 5 Sep 2007, 16:27 (Ref:2004420)

Without a championship permit they can't have points and a championship winner.

I'm sure there is more detail to it than that but that's a big issue. They can have a winner of each round in the series but not have points towards a championship which I imagine would put off the serious contenders and takes away the "hype" of who is winning the championship etc. etc.

leonidas · 5 Sep 2007, 16:52 (Ref:2004452)

It means they can't have an MSA recognised championship. Errr... so what? I doubt if this will affect the SCSA very much as presumably they'll run their own 'unofficial' championship table anyway. Can the MSA do anything to stop this? NASCAR ran championships for years while totally ignoring USAC and the US road racing fraternity

brickkicker · 5 Sep 2007, 17:53 (Ref:2004508)

But dont the 4 that have had there permits declined have more cars on the grid than the T-cars (which according to there site is a championship).
Bad news for the SCSA although they were on a yellow card from last year, hope that they re think that one as it would be a shame for it to fold (and almost certainly close Rockingham) as the cars have no were else to race.

tristancliffe · 5 Sep 2007, 17:59 (Ref:2004514)

I'm pretty sure lots of series (not championships) have points and champions at the end of it.

In other words, this is pretty meaningless? ClubF3 will still be around next year, but they don't have to worry anymore, as long as the club can afford entries?

JimW · 5 Sep 2007, 19:12 (Ref:2004564)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

I'm pretty sure lots of series (not championships) have points and champions at the end of it.

Like who?

Jim

chezza · 5 Sep 2007, 19:41 (Ref:2004582)

The point about the pre-93 lot etc...did they apply for championship registration?? These things don't happen automatically, applications had to be submitted in July iirc.

redshoes · 5 Sep 2007, 21:18 (Ref:2004651)

Quote:

Originally Posted by leonidas

It means they can't have an MSA recognised championship. Errr... so what? I doubt if this will affect the SCSA very much as presumably they'll run their own 'unofficial' championship table anyway. Can the MSA do anything to stop this?

Possible hypothetical question - if this happened, could the MSA refuse a race permit for any series running as a support at an SCSA meeting? Could mean that the support races would need to run as non-championship rounds.

Not that I think this would ever happen.

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