Honda and the ALMS?

jhansen · 24 Oct 2005, 15:17 (Ref:1442259)

A representative from Honda was featured on SpeedTV over the weekend. Here is a portion of what he had to say:

Robert Clark on Speed News 10/23

"We are looking at things…as I have identified or spotted at different races around the country. We (Honda) are not hiding the fact we are looking around, we’re considering where might be a good place for competing in a new series. There are many things about the ALMS that we like, obviously the competition is there. It seems that many new manufacturers are coming to into the series, Porsche is one of them. It has the signs of strengthening. It is a different kind of racing that Honda hasn’t done much of, so we’re real not familiar with it. But the engine formula in that series is also particularly very interesting because they allow different configurations of engines, from 4 cylinders, V6, V8, V10 as well as diesels and hybrids. I mean...I mean it’s pretty interesting."

There are some very positive comments there. The ALMS certainly seems to be generating the proper kind of interest at the moment.

SALEEN S7R · 24 Oct 2005, 15:34 (Ref:1442271)

Indeed very good to hear, maybe Honda will enter the series sometime soon? Would be nice to have them in the ALMS/LMES but Im not counting on it. Honda has heavy involvement in both F1 and Super GT at the moment, both of which I would imagine are very expensive programmes. Still, as you say, some very positive comments in the statement above.

JAG · 24 Oct 2005, 15:44 (Ref:1442276)

Honda Europe and Japan though.

This is Honda North America.

Seeing as the car could also race in Europe and Japan resources could be shared.

ger80 · 24 Oct 2005, 15:54 (Ref:1442287)

Well, they dont need the IRL money anymore in the future if there are only Honda engines in IRL

Dauer 962 · 24 Oct 2005, 16:15 (Ref:1442299)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ger80

Well, they dont need the IRL money anymore in the future if there are only Honda engines in IRL

And these engines will cost nothing ?

I don´t think they will save any money, if they do, they will put it in the marketing.

ger80 · 24 Oct 2005, 16:26 (Ref:1442313)

Of course they will cost money, but the teams have to pay. And they dont need millions to have there engine in one of the top team cars like Team Grean (Andretti)
Also engines will work more miles until they new ones. look at champcar, dont think cosworth is losing money with that deal.
Marketing without other engines? Next TV Spot from Honda NA " We are faster then a car without an engine"

ger80 · 24 Oct 2005, 16:50 (Ref:1442324)

Is Penske still shareholder of Illmor NA? Think they build Honda IRL engines

jhansen · 24 Oct 2005, 16:57 (Ref:1442335)

Well, Penske does have an alternate source for engines now...

But I think this news from Honda is great. Even if they don't build their own chassis, they could easily offer a great customer engine. Their IRL powerplant is already a good platform for a P2 engine. They could support some strong customer teams (AGR/Rahal), or build a ground up prototype.

ger80 · 24 Oct 2005, 17:14 (Ref:1442354)

Illmor NA builds that IRL engine. And if Penske is still a shareholder, he could say that Illmor NA doesnt build an LMP2 engine.

jhansen · 24 Oct 2005, 17:19 (Ref:1442356)

But Roger Penske likes to make money as well you know.

ger80 · 25 Oct 2005, 15:18 (Ref:1443138)

Yes, but fighting against his own engine? Illmor NA are able to build very good engines i think. Watch IRL, they are the best since more then one year (Think thats the time whenHonda gave the IRL project to Illmor because they needed there own people for Formula1)

billnchristy · 25 Oct 2005, 15:33 (Ref:1443148)

An engine built to run flat out 100% of the time makes not a good sports car engine 100% of the time.

paul-collins · 25 Oct 2005, 15:37 (Ref:1443153)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ger80

Yes, but fighting against his own engine?

That's different from today how? Ilmor is building Honda engines while Penske is running Toyotas?

jhansen · 25 Oct 2005, 15:48 (Ref:1443157)

I don't think Honda will have much trouble billnchristy. The basis for a great powerplant is there.

There are obviously some hurdles such as switching from methanol to gas, running air restrictors instead of rev limiters, re-mapping the engine, and tuning it for endurance. But Honda would be able to do all of that.

paul-collins · 25 Oct 2005, 15:53 (Ref:1443162)

...not to mention IRL doesn't run flat out all the time any more.

Dauer 962 · 25 Oct 2005, 15:54 (Ref:1443163)

Don´t know if that Honda IRL engine is good for sportscar racing. In sportcar racing you need torque and usally these kind of open wheel racing engines don´t have much torque.

cybersdorf · 25 Oct 2005, 16:04 (Ref:1443166)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dauer 962

Don´t know if that Honda IRL engine is good for sportscar racing. In sportcar racing you need torque and usally these kind of open wheel racing engines don´t have much torque.

That's not a new argument, though. Remember the Judd GV4?

Dauer 962 · 25 Oct 2005, 16:28 (Ref:1443180)

O.k., but however, if Honda will enter the ALMS they will be able to develop a complete new engine and not use a recycled IRL one. Anything else wouldn’t be very reasonable. If you think about that endurance race in France, will a recycled IRL engine last ? I guess Honda will not save any money with the engine.

But at first, hope that they will enter and Porsche will have a serious competitor, than we can discuss again about the engine

Nordic · 25 Oct 2005, 16:50 (Ref:1443190)

The tone of the interview leads me to think that Honda is very interested in the 'alternative' fuels that the rules allow for. Honda has one of the biggest research budgets of all the motor companies and a showcase for these could be very attractive.

However the US may not be the natural market for these new engines in the short term but on the other hand a quick racing car powered by something other than a petrol V8 could be just what it needs!

BTW, there was a rumor a while back on this site that there where a number of Honda sponsored cars being made. Did this get proven or not?

tblincoe · 25 Oct 2005, 20:39 (Ref:1443344)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordic

BTW, there was a rumor a while back on this site that there where a number of Honda sponsored cars being made. Did this get proven or not?

I'm very interested to hear a follow-up on this as well. Fogelhund was the driving force behind this rumor and he has since backed away (he said that 15 prototype chassis were being built in Georgia, but did not specify it was related to Honda). If I had to guess, this was related to Panoz now being the builder of the next-gen CCWS chassis.

Fogelhund?

paul-collins · 25 Oct 2005, 20:55 (Ref:1443359)

It's possible, but more likely is that the 15 chassis that we had heard were being built are/were unrelated to any P2 effort. I have an idea that they might be destined for a support series of some sort.

Tim Northcutt · 25 Oct 2005, 21:11 (Ref:1443375)

Do a search history on my posts concerning the Honda IRL engine, or any IRL-related engine....

the concerns listed above concerning torque, rpm band witdths, or other issues have been addressed...and I have checked them with people who have experience with these types of engines...

The Honda engine would be very competitive in an LMP2 car...no doubt about it....

JAG · 25 Oct 2005, 21:36 (Ref:1443404)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dauer 962

Don´t know if that Honda IRL engine is good for sportscar racing. In sportcar racing you need torque and usally these kind of open wheel racing engines don´t have much torque.

Is that as relevant for a small capacity P2 engine?

Tim Northcutt · 25 Oct 2005, 21:41 (Ref:1443409)

Two things:

1. Proper Gearing will maximize what an engine can offer via torque multiplication, and

2. The Honda IRL engine has smaller intake inlets on its valvetrain, which increase torque in the lower and middle ranges of the rpm bands...

Plus, they have at least 18 months worth of testing the engine with gearboxes on road courses....

Honda knows what it will take within the ACO/ALMS engine guidelines to make that engine work well and be competitive...

slicktoast · 27 Oct 2005, 01:02 (Ref:1444653)

Doesn't Honda have a bunch of V-10s hanging around now since F1 is going with V-8s? The tooling is all still there and whatever adjustments have to be made with restrictors etc. could be worked/mapped out, I would think. Isn't this where/how the Judd V-10 had it's early beginnings?
In fact the F1 engine makers all have a bunch of basically useless V-10s hanging around, wouldn't it be great to see some of these detuned units show up in LMP1s?

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