[LM24] Le Mans 2005 Entry List [Withdrawals] (merged)

[19dodge]

zytek is just a works team as much as Champion is or Courage, or Lister. a works team is someone like Corvette. - a big manufacturer stepping up, and supporting the team..

[Wout]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

There is no anti-British sentiment attached to the ACO list there are in fact 15 british entered cars on the list (just a couple fewer than the French entry count which has only exceeded the Brit pack after the recent withdrawls).

Maybe that's one of the reasons that the ACO prefer a Dutch entry above another British entry.
Don't understand why people continue in complaining about the Spyker entry's. At least they didn't withdraw their reserve-entry.

Can we please have something to support/cheer for?

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by Wout

Maybe that's one of the reasons that the ACO prefer a Dutch entry above another British entry.
Don't understand why people continue in complaining about the Spyker entry's. At least they didn't withdraw their reserve-entry.

Can we please have something to support/cheer for?

it has everything to do with the fact the cars are WOEFULLY un-competitive and just aren't deserving of two entries while other teams get none... i look at things from a competition perspective and not a nationality perspective

[ss_collins]

thank god for all this - excellent from my point of view, it will all make good copy when it comes out in the wash (sorry am being very cynical).

I personally think with only 1 reserve left - perhaps the ACO really should consider letting extra competant entries onto the reserve list. We all expect more withdrawls so perhaps there should be an extra contingent allowed to run at test day - and in quals. so that there are 50 cars on the grid 4pm Saturday.

[SALEEN S7R]

The ACO has fouled up once again on their entry list. How many times have we seen this over the last 4 or 5 years? The ACO has a habit of rubbing people up the wrong way IMO and its about time they got together some sort of concrete method of selecting the best cars and teams for the Le Mans 24hrs.

What we have now which IMO is a good entry list but is spoilt by a few rag tag entrants being accepted into the series, one of whom IMO is the Spyker squad. Lets hope that one day the ACO can finally sort themselves out. Or better yet let Ratel organise the race, keep it in ACO name etc but let Ratel do the organising.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

it has everything to do with the fact the cars are WOEFULLY un-competitive and just aren't deserving of two entries while other teams get none...

Well, they are, so get over it and stop nagging about it. We can all go sit down together and whine untill the 24h how LNT deserved it more and how ****ty Spyker is, but that isn't helping anybody.

[vandijk]

ACEMCO:

"The primary reason we have decided to withdraw from Le Mans is because of the re-interpretation of the A.C.O. rule regarding the width of the rear wing for our car" said Jeff Giangrande, team owner. "Based upon our experience at Road Atlanta with the revised wing width, six-inches smaller than the team ran in 2004, the aerodynamic package of the Saleen S7-R is extremely unstable, especially in high speed corners. Because of the high speeds that are witnessed at the Le Mans circuit, we feel that the car, in its current configuration, would be too big of a compromise in overall handling and performance. I also have to think of the safety of my drivers."

[courageous]

It has been said before & needs saying again - It's the ACO's race & it's their call who they invite. There are only 50 places, if a team wants a better chance of getting an entry for a 24 hour race then Daytona, Spa & Nurburgring all have WAY more room.
As far as the Spyker being slow & it being a Xenophobic reason for the Zytek/Lister/TVR not getting an entry, I don't recall many guys over here in England moaning when the Morgan got an entry.

[SALEEN S7R]

Bramzel, this is a "discussion forum" Welcome! Tblincoe, and I and many others here feel extremely strongly on this matter and we are discussing the matter. That is what forums are for, if u dont wish to contribute ur opinion on the this thread regarding the topic then please dont feel that u have to. But this thread is here to discuss the LM entry list and that is what we will continue to do.

[19dodge]

Originally Posted by vandijk

ACEMCO:

"The primary reason we have decided to withdraw from Le Mans is because of the re-interpretation of the A.C.O. rule regarding the width of the rear wing for our car" said Jeff Giangrande, team owner. "Based upon our experience at Road Atlanta with the revised wing width, six-inches smaller than the team ran in 2004, the aerodynamic package of the Saleen S7-R is extremely unstable, especially in high speed corners. Because of the high speeds that are witnessed at the Le Mans circuit, we feel that the car, in its current configuration, would be too big of a compromise in overall handling and performance. I also have to think of the safety of my drivers."

i expected that.

All the saleens are strugelling this year, because of this new rule with the wing. Im so upset that the FIA adopted the ACO rules this year, because otherwise, the Saleens would at least be competitve in the FIA GT.

The ACO can go screw themselves. They are prejudice towards certain car makes, and certain teams, and it has been shown over and over. Remember the BMW's?, they havent come back because of that.. Saleens have been cut down, year after year, when not even having improved performances. And now, with the ACO not even accepting LNT TVR's, or the Zytek. I have had it. They must change something, or sportscar racing ACO style will be going downhill!

[SimonXS]

Originally Posted by courageous

It has been said before & needs saying again - It's the ACO's race & it's their call who they invite. There are only 50 places, if a team wants a better chance of getting an entry for a 24 hour race then Daytona, Spa & Nurburgring all have WAY more room.
As far as the Spyker being slow & it being a Xenophobic reason for the Zytek/Lister/TVR not getting an entry, I don't recall many guys over here in England moaning when the Morgan got an entry.

But i doubt the morgan would have 2 entrys. And atleast the morgan will finish, if not alot of the race, but them spykers will break within 30 laps like at spa. What it is, is that LNT and zytek, are both cars which should of been some of the first cars picked by the ACO, not put on the reserve list, but acctually picked in the first place. But as per usual the ACO wheeled out the blind people and must of drew cars outta the hat. because personally i dont want to see 2 WR's, 11million Courages, 2 ugly slow and rather pants spykers, and the usual 2000billion porcshes.

Oh and on the nationalty stakes, dont forget the main bulk of fans at the race are british, so it makes sense to please them..... not the minoritys

[Graham Goodwin]

Zytek are, as I said earlier, fully aware of the reason - Two significant figures within the team offered that opinion to me independently (without being asked) during the LMES weekend.

What they said is less important than the fact that they accepted it (albeit that they were disappointed with it)

[Tim Northcutt]

Here we go again.....

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Bramzel, this is a "discussion forum" Welcome! Tblincoe, and I and many others here feel extremely strongly on this matter and we are discussing the matter. That is what forums are for, if u dont wish to contribute ur opinion on the this thread regarding the topic then please dont feel that u have to. But this thread is here to discuss the LM entry list and that is what we will continue to do.

Discussing is one. Repeating the same thing time after time after time isn't. My meaning is that that's annoying, also because I don't like the way Spyker is kicked down all the time. That's my opinion, this is a discussion forum. Welcome!

Of course I respect your opinion Tblincoe. I actually agree completely that LNT should be at LeMans. I just get a bit irritated from time to time when I see everybody kicking down Spyker while they're trying as hard as any other team.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by 19dodge

The ACO can go screw themselves. They are prejudice towards certain car makes, and certain teams, and it has been shown over and over. Remember the BMW's?

Poor example. BMW screwed themeselves with poor political decisions. Didn't come back to defend their 1999 win in 2000, and then lobbied for the M3GTR with the promise of a GT entry, which they then didn't even apply for.

Originally Posted by SimonXS

Oh and on the nationalty stakes, dont forget the main bulk of fans at the race are british, so it makes sense to please them..... not the minoritys

That's jingoism of the worst sort. This is a race of the world. Variety is essential.

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Zytek are, as I said earlier, fully aware of the reason - Two significant figures within the team offered that opinion to me independently (without being asked) during the LMES weekend.

What they said is less important than the fact that they accepted it (albeit that they were disappointed with it)

Do I take it, then, that the reason isn't something which can be disclosed on a public forum?

[kdr]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

That's jingoism of the worst sort. This is a race of the world. Variety is essential.

not only jingoism...probably a bit of a shock to the french fans who seem to make up the large part of the crowd of this french race.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Do I take it, then, that the reason isn't something which can be disclosed on a public forum?

Nothing so sensitive - just that having not got any specific agreement to publish their views it really doesn't seem appropriate to report them here.

The important thing though is that their reaction genuinely is one of disappointment rather than outrage.

[I love 04s]

Im not sure who you are graham but i am pretty close to the team and what you are saying is simply not true, the only reason they can see for now being accepted is that they did not complte a full LMEs season last year and their car did not last Le Mans (although it did get P3).

[SALEEN S7R]

Graham Goodwin is the Deputy Editor at www.dailysportscar.com - Check out the website, its a good site and they dont normally get their facts mixed up...

[jhansen]

I don't like the fact that the factory Zytek has been excluded. But, when measuring it against say the Autocon exclusion last year, I suppose it makes sense.

On the other hand, the exclusion of Lister is a bit more confusing. They ran the Le Mans 1000K in 2003, managed to finish Le Mans last year, ran three of the four '04 LMES races (missed Monza), and contested the Spa race this year.

Then take the Oreca Audi. They make their announcement. Skip Sebring. And race Spa. But they are granted entry.

I think a more concrete process by which entries for Le Mans are determined is a must. How is a team ever sure they're in? Some consistency would be nice.

[Tim Northcutt]

I'd just wish someone involved in the selection process would place their heads and their thoughts somewhere that the sun shines...

(read between the lines if you will)

I still can't fathom how the car that sat on the pole for the 2004 race doesn't get invited to return to rae again in 2005...

[rdjones]

Don't worry Tim, it is quite beyond me too. But as someone said eariler in the thread its the ACO's race and they will invite who they want not who the fan's want.

[jhansen]

Tim: Veloqx (the '04 pole sitter) turned down their entry.

[jhansen]

Actually, I've done some further thought. The factory Zytek was granted an invitation last year when all they had ran was the Monza race. On that basis, you'd assume the car would have been accepted this year. So no, I don't see how it was excluded.

Like I said, how can a team know the criteria?