[LM24] Toyota plans Le Mans return with hybrid!

[ss_collins]

Yes, of course particle filters are used in production cars.

Dow came up with a new porous ceramic material for diesel particle filters that has much better properties (lighter, less pressure loss, faster regeneration, ...). They are now showcasing it in Audi R10 and Peugeot 908, and it will find its way in production cars.

I'm talking of the Dow filters, I was at a presentation by Dow at Le Mans when the R10 debuted. Audi initially did not use the Dow filters, but later switched to them it was pre-existing tech. Actually I'm sure I covered it on the mag!

[chewymonster]

Honestly I don't think any current racing is very close to reality. It is unknown how much the R10 TDI makes normal TDIs better, I guess it helps somewhat. A racing hybrid would make the most sense by running the gas engine at all times and adding more performance. In the real world the goal of a hybrid is to run the electric motor as much as possible and run the gas engine less and with less load. Can racing make a better hybrid system. Probably you would end up with a very light hybrid system, but one that is not very useful out on the street.

[TRuss]

Ofcourse racing improves the breed. I'm sure alot of what Audi learns from racing the R10 will improve their road going diesels. They are learning how to make a diesel engine, lighter, higher revving, more powerful and more flexible across the tachcometer. Any of these things that will make the race engine better can probably be transferred to their road cars in someway. As for hybrids, well they are basicly in their infancy. Racing should go a long ways to improving them. Battery and electric motor technology at these sizes and applications have a long way to go. Remember the batteries are extremely heavy. Anybody who can figure out how to lose weight while improving effeciency will have an advantage both on the track and street. I have no doubt that a lot of what was learned in Group C was transferred to improve fuel economy and power for road cars. Look how much those areas improved from the 80s to the mid to late 90s. Yes, racing can still improve our road cars.

[dxk1]

I was thinking about the possibility of Toyota coming back to Le Mans again and thought that the only way it makes sense for them is lots of publicity and a big upside to spedning all that money.

First, they need to design and prepare a car that will be competitive and reliable, it doesn't necessarily have to win, but it can't make them look bad by going out in the early stages, so they need lots of development time to come with something solid and reliable.

Second, they need to test it in competition somewhere that they can get some publicity mileage out of it. I would say running it in ALMS would work.

Third, they need to maximize the publicity! Since they are now involved in NASCAR, how about getting a NASCAR team with a great deal of experience to be their "team" in ALMS. How about JGR. Then to really get the publicity express into high gear, how about Tony Stewart to drive the car. He's fearless, and has a reasonable amount of experience on road courses.

Fourth, Get JGR to bring the car to Le Mans along with Tony Stewart to drive and Toyota is on its way. Publicity in the US would go into high gear and you might even get Le Mans on regular TV again.

Toyota would have to make it worth the while for JGR and for Tony Stewart as he would have to give up NASCAR for the interim, but they have the money to compensate folks well.

Oh well, just a thought!

DK

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by dxk1

I was thinking about the possibility of Toyota coming back to Le Mans again and thought that the only way it makes sense for them is lots of publicity and a big upside to spedning all that money.

First, they need to design and prepare a car that will be competitive and reliable, it doesn't necessarily have to win, but it can't make them look bad by going out in the early stages, so they need lots of development time to come with something solid and reliable.

Second, they need to test it in competition somewhere that they can get some publicity mileage out of it. I would say running it in ALMS would work.

Third, they need to maximize the publicity! Since they are now involved in NASCAR, how about getting a NASCAR team with a great deal of experience to be their "team" in ALMS. How about JGR. Then to really get the publicity express into high gear, how about Tony Stewart to drive the car. He's fearless, and has a reasonable amount of experience on road courses.

Fourth, Get JGR to bring the car to Le Mans along with Tony Stewart to drive and Toyota is on its way. Publicity in the US would go into high gear and you might even get Le Mans on regular TV again.

Toyota would have to make it worth the while for JGR and for Tony Stewart as he would have to give up NASCAR for the interim, but they have the money to compensate folks well.

Oh well, just a thought!

DK

As nice an idea as it is, I wonder how many NASCAR folk would do almost anything to make sure that doesn't happen... can't imagine they'd be too pleased anyway!

But if they need to design a new car and to take their time with it to make it reliable and competitive, firstly they'd need some long-term confirmation of the LMP rules - something which I guess is still up in the air at the moment.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

As nice an idea as it is, I wonder how many NASCAR folk would do almost anything to make sure that doesn't happen... can't imagine they'd be too pleased anyway!

But if they need to design a new car and to take their time with it to make it reliable and competitive, firstly they'd need some long-term confirmation of the LMP rules - something which I guess is still up in the air at the moment.

I agree with you regarding the LMP rules and the NASCAR effort to undermine such an effort by a NASCAR Toyota team. But if Toyota wins bigtime in NASCAR this year or next, NASCAR may need them more than they need NASCAR. Also, I guess this was sort of my round about way of saying that Toyota probably won't rush into anything. They are now the biggest automaker and have the money to do it right. I think they get the biggest bang for their buck if they make a splash in the biggest auto market, which is still the US. They can't make the biggest splash possible without big publicity. What better way to achieve that than to have some big names associated with their effort. Ergo, JGR & Tony Stewart. Would be an interesting development.

DK

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by dxk1

I
Fourth, Get JGR to bring the car to Le Mans along with Tony Stewart to drive and Toyota is on its way. Publicity in the US would go into high gear and you might even get Le Mans on regular TV again.

Toyota would have to make it worth the while for JGR and for Tony Stewart as he would have to give up NASCAR for the interim, but they have the money to compensate folks well.

Oh well, just a thought!

DK

JGR and Tony are a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Bit busy for three weeks in June, to drop everything and spend time in France.

Remember the Toyotas in NASCAR are TRDs in North America not Toyotas from Japan. if not built by JGR and or Micheal Waltrip racing.

So do you really think JGR just dropped his chevy's and did everything toyota? Not a chance, so how did JGR do this so quickly?

Answer: DECALS.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

JGR and Tony are a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Bit busy for three weeks in June, to drop everything and spend time in France.

Remember the Toyotas in NASCAR are TRDs in North America not Toyotas from Japan. if not built by JGR and or Micheal Waltrip racing.

So do you really think JGR just dropped his chevy's and did everything toyota? Not a chance, so how did JGR do this so quickly?

Answer: DECALS.

My point was that JGR would have to drop NASCAR for a few years to be involved in the project (of course being well compensated by Toyota all the while). Also, while TRD North Am has some autonomy, we all know how Japanese companies are run and one would assume that the parent company has quite a bit of oversight and must sign off on any ideas & plans. If they get it into their heads that they want to run at the LM 24, the plan I laid out in the above posts wouldn't be the worst of ideas!! Remember, in the US NASCAR is still king whether we (sportscar fans) like it or not.

DK

[JAG]

Originally Posted by dxk1

I was thinking about the possibility of Toyota coming back to Le Mans again and thought that the only way it makes sense for them is lots of publicity and a big upside to spedning all that money.

First, they need to design and prepare a car that will be competitive and reliable, it doesn't necessarily have to win, but it can't make them look bad by going out in the early stages, so they need lots of development time to come with something solid and reliable.

Second, they need to test it in competition somewhere that they can get some publicity mileage out of it. I would say running it in ALMS would work.

Third, they need to maximize the publicity! Since they are now involved in NASCAR, how about getting a NASCAR team with a great deal of experience to be their "team" in ALMS. How about JGR. Then to really get the publicity express into high gear, how about Tony Stewart to drive the car. He's fearless, and has a reasonable amount of experience on road courses.

Fourth, Get JGR to bring the car to Le Mans along with Tony Stewart to drive and Toyota is on its way. Publicity in the US would go into high gear and you might even get Le Mans on regular TV again.

Toyota would have to make it worth the while for JGR and for Tony Stewart as he would have to give up NASCAR for the interim, but they have the money to compensate folks well.

Oh well, just a thought!

DK

I'd assume any Toyota Le Mans car would be based in Japan or Europe, from the same guys who ran the F1 and WRC teams.

[TRuss]

Let's hope that they keep any NASCAR team as far away from this potential project as possible. I've never been much of a NASCAR fan but I'm hating it more and more as the seasons go by. Yesterday SPEED had over eight hours straight from Vegas. Every time I flipped over there it was NASCAR. Either a couple of guys on track or more than likely just a bunch of idiots rambling on and on about God knows what. Then the same thing today. There is probably something NASCAR related on right now. PHEEEWWEEIT

[JAG]

Sky Sports are covering NASCAR in the UK now, probably because of Franchitti and Montoya competing.

I was suprised to see so many gaps in the grandstands at last weeks race.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by JAG

Sky Sports are covering NASCAR in the UK now, probably because of Franchitti and Montoya competing.

I was suprised to see so many gaps in the grandstands at last weeks race.

Because of rain the race was moved from Sunday to Monday. This is probably the reason for some empty seats.

If Toyota/Lexus enters endurance racing I think the project will be based in Cologne (except if it's an ALMS project like the Acura).

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by FIRE

If Toyota/Lexus enters endurance racing I think the project will be based in Cologne (except if it's an ALMS project like the Acura).

If Toyota goes ACO-style sportscar racing, it will be based in Europe.
With Toyotas ties to NASCAR and Grand Am, I can't see them competing in the rivaling ALMS. I'm pretty sure an ALMS involvement wouldn't go down well with the Frances, and they would find means to let Toyota know that it is better for their NASCAR programm to not join ALMS.

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by TRuss

Let's hope that they keep any NASCAR team as far away from this potential project as possible. I've never been much of a NASCAR fan but I'm hating it more and more as the seasons go by. Yesterday SPEED had over eight hours straight from Vegas. Every time I flipped over there it was NASCAR. Either a couple of guys on track or more than likely just a bunch of idiots rambling on and on about God knows what. Then the same thing today. There is probably something NASCAR related on right now. PHEEEWWEEIT

I know what you mean. It's a bit like those socalled "sportsprogramme's" that cover nothing else but football/soccer and still dare calling themselves a sportsprogramme.
And allthough NASCAR is o.k. to watch from time to time,I never last past half an hour before being bored...

Anyway,before Toyota will enter the sportscar arena again,they'll first have to quit F1 which may happen sooner then we might think,with the dwindling F1 popularity and all...
And then it'll surely be TTE(Toyota Tuning Europe) running the effort.

[FIRE]

TTE = Toyota Team Europe. It's still based in Cologne but renamed to Toyota Motorsports.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Because of rain the race was moved from Sunday to Monday. This is probably the reason for some empty seats.

I watched the first half hour live on Sunday night, even then it was only 70% full.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by FIRE

TTE = Toyota Team Europe. It's still based in Cologne but renamed to Toyota Motorsports.

and when will Toyota corperate take over? Oh that is right TTE has two years for results in F1 or else . . . .

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

and when will Toyota corperate take over? Oh that is right TTE has two years for results in F1 or else . . . .

TTE and the F1 team are different- they supposedly had (have?) control but the orders run much higher. they were better before when they were allowed to do their own thing and created the corolla wrc, the GT-One etc.

[deggis]

Time to revive this thread... hopefully not for nothing. Japanese Samurai posted two interesting links to the EVO rules thread:

1) http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=237

-Toyota Motorsports Festival, 23rd November, Fuji
-mysterious LMP-look-a-like silhuette on the website

2) http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/sports/news...OYT1T00607.htm

-translation by Japanese Samurai here
-gibberish by Google Translate: link


.

[FIRE]

Great news

[Aslak Vind]

The Lexus all hybrid theme would really make sense.

[Japanese Samurai]

-Translation-

Toyota : to the Le Mans participation by the hybrid car … The test run beginning.

It turned out that Toyota aimed at participation in "24 Heures du Mans" in the hybrid car, and they had begun the test run with the machine for actual Le Mans.
The person related to Toyota clarified it.
They want to participate aiming at the victory in 2010.
The development of the machine for Le Mans was advanced on the scale of tens of people, and a hybrid device was built into a pure racing car made of the other companies to participate in Le Mans until last year(Dome S101.5?) and the test run was begun now.
Head Toyota commented that there was a big charm in the appeal for the excellence of the hybrid though it had not been becoming a participation decision because it was a stage where realizability was verified now.

Note
Yomiuri shimbun(newspaper) is the Japanese most famous quality paper.

[Japanese Samurai]

Note
This test car is a tentative machine.

[rich07]

Well lets hope its the beginning of a Le mans programme.

[deggis]

Thanks for the more precise translation.