No-rules F1 - engine questions

[Jared]

Let's say the powers that be in F1 decided to open up the regulations and allow manufacturers to build engines without capacity restrictions and without restriction on supercharging or turbocharging.

In your opinion, how large would the engines be, would they be normally-aspirated to save fuel or turbocharged for power? How many BHP do you think they would have?

Thanks.

[Jared]

Any guesses?

[Sparky]

That's a hard question. (Though just the sort of thing Franklin would love! )

I would think a capacity of 1500 to 2000cc, with supercharging AND turbocharging, mega-multi valve (or revolutionary cylinder filling properties) and maybe a dash of nitrous oxide for passing manoeuvres, and a rev limit of... say 22,000rpm? Bhp... dunno.. about 1800 to 2000? Maybe more.

The big problem, I beleive, would be a dramatic increase in the number of engine failures.

What do you think, Jared?

[yelwoci]

No problem!

3 or 4 rotor bi-turbo rotary engine.
Rotors would be made of Beryllium Alluminium Alloys to reduce rotor weight down to under 900g.
Housings the same.
Whole engine would weigh about 50kg (3 rotor) and produce over 1000hp at 12,000rpm.
It would be LOUD and very HOT.

IanC

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by yelwoci

Whole engine would weigh about 50kg (3 rotor) and produce over 1000hp at 12,000rpm.
It would be LOUD and very HOT.

IanC

Very similar to the Mazda 757 of 1987(?) which won Le Mans

[Jared]

Oh, I don't know about asking Franklin. That engine would have large fins on it, a parachute out the back and god knows what else. Just kidding, Franklin.

I was thinking along the lines of 3.0 liters (seemed like a safe number), turbocharged, with maximum revs of above 20,000 rpm, perhaps much higher, and a bhp figure of around 1500 (they were getting approx. 1200 bhp out of 1.5 liter engines, am I right?).

Although, the rotary idea is not bad.

[yelwoci]

The rotary also hasn't had as much development as F1 engines at very high speed, 12000 is normally the max.

As Pete pointed out the Le Mans cars were similar spec to my engine, except they used normal materials and were heavier. these engines ran for 24hrs at well over 850bhp in race trim. The turbos helped keep the noise down to 130dBA

I'm sure with a bit of development and lighter components they would run at faster speeds than a reciprocator, though the speed of sound at the exhaust port might be a limiting factor!



IanC

[Sparky]

Jared, you're thinking along very similar lines as I am.
Although, I would have thought that the reciprocating elements in a 3-litre design would limit the revs to below 20,000. This is why I went for the lower mechanical capacity, made up by supercharging (low end power) and turbocharging (high end) with the nitrous as an additional boost.

By the way, Nitrous and turbos are made for each other - each has pro's and con's that balance each other out. In 'no-rules' racing, I'd have to run all three!

I don't know a bean about rotary power, except for the unfortunate 'oil seal failure syndrome.'

I know they make extraordinary amounts of power, but would it be enough to keep up with the non-rotaries in the 'no-rules' racing series? And if not, and attempts were made to make the power, would they hold together?

[yelwoci]

Sparky
"I don't know a bean about rotary power, except for the unfortunate 'oil seal failure syndrome."

The failure was in the Apex seals, synonymous with piston rings. However this ahs been sorted and onc ethe thing is running the only things that cause problems are pre/post igntion and dirt.

"I know they make extraordinary amounts of power, but would it be enough to keep up with the non-rotaries in the 'no-rules' racing series? And if not, and attempts were made to make the power, would they hold together? "

They produce more power and a flatter torque curve than a boinger. They have less moving parts and are more reliable than boingers.

The only time they become unreliable is if they're not allowed to warm up, or if they are not permiited to be peripheral ports. The resulting 'Monster' side ports cut into the water jacket which will fail every 500miles or so.

IanC