2023 Launch/Pre-Season testing

[Mike Harte]

Stroll will be missing the pre-season testing after suffering some injuries whilst cycling in Spain as part of his training; his fitness will be monitored prior to the first race.

Aston Martin can count on reigning Mercedes Formula E champion and former McLaren F1 Stoffel Vandoorne plus FIA F2 title winner Felipe Drugovich as it's reserve drivers according to the report on Motorsport.com: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/s...dent/10434288/

[Skam85]

Wonder if this is a JPM mystery injury or an actual cycling incident.

And if Stroll isn't fit for Bahrain race weekend, will they call on Felipe or Stoffel?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Wonder if this is a JPM mystery injury or an actual cycling incident.

And if Stroll isn't fit for Bahrain race weekend, will they call on Felipe or Stoffel?

Surely a job for Supersub Hulkenberg...... Oh wait....


Stoffel is technically busy for the race weekend, committed to the Cape Town E-Prix.

Mick Schumacher is also part of the Mercedes Pool.
That would be ironic.... to have been kicked out of a regular F1 seat to then get a opportunity to do a one-off in a potentially better car than he has ever had as a full timer.

[P38 in workshop]

With all that black paint on the grid it will look like an undertakers car park.Presumably,it has been done to allow more bare carbon and a few grams of weight saving.

[Sodemo]

The priorities for the F1 technical people should be;

Weight saving
Weight saving and
More weight saving

The current cars are ridiculously overweight for "Formula" cars.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The priorities for the F1 technical people should be;

Weight saving
Weight saving and
More weight saving

The current cars are ridiculously overweight for "Formula" cars.

You forgot drag!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The priorities for the F1 technical people should be;

Weight saving
Weight saving and
More weight saving

The current cars are ridiculously overweight for "Formula" cars.

Two comments...

1. As much a we say the cars are big and heavy. It seems that F1, which is supposed to be the top of formula car technology. Seems to struggle to get the cars down to or or under minimum weight. My conclusion is... given the requirements (safety, etc.) it is just hard to make the cars weigh less than they do! Otherwise they would all be significantly underweight today.

2. If you are able to get your car underweight and you are then free to strategically place ballast to get up to minimum. Why use paint as your ballast? My point here is that if the taboo of unpainted modern cars has been broken (as it seems to be), everyone is going to jump on this even if their car is underweight already because it gives them just a tiny bit more ballast to play with.

Why leave performance on the table by painting the car? I expect these cars are meeting just the bare minimum sponsorship requirements with respect to paint or anything else applied to the bodywork.

Richard

[Sodemo]

What has been the cause of the biggest weight gains over the last few years? I guess the battery for the kers deployment is one thing?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

What has been the cause of the biggest weight gains over the last few years? I guess the battery for the kers deployment is one thing?

There are many things that have contributed to weight gain.

Firstly - safety. 'The halo, better front, rear and side impact protection, multiple wheel tethers, and 5mm thick anti-intrusion Zylon panels running along the sides of the monocoque'

Then there is the PU and move to hybrid:
'35kg was added to the overall weight between 2009 and 2011 to make KERS viable for teams.'
'Between 2013 and 2015 another 62kg was added to the minimum weight, firstly to accommodate the turbo-hybrid power units (batteries, turbo and intercooler, MGU-H, MGU-K...etc), and then following concerns about some of the drivers being dangerously underweight to meet the 690kg limit'
'Since 2016 another 32kg has been added for the wider cars and wider tyres introduced in the 2017 regulations'



source - f1technical.net

[chillibowl]

https://the-race.com/formula-1/f1s-p...e%20the%20mass.

Tombazis talking about it a few months ago:

“It is realistic to make them a bit lighter,” Tombazis told The Race. “Not a massive amount; we have to consider that the difference in weight since 2000, say 20 years ago or so, is about 200kg, which is a massive number.

“And out of those 200kg, about 100 comes from the power unit, so from the electrical parts, batteries, turbos and so on. That is a big weight increase.

“About 50kg-odd are for safety. So halos, much stronger chassis, bigger protections and so on and so forth. So again, nobody would want to compromise that.

“Then there’s where the opportunity is, and there’s about 15-20kg because of more complex systems on the cars and there’s about 30-35kg on car dimensions. So cars being much longer and wider, bigger tyres and so on.



sounds like any change for 2026 and on will come from reducing car length and width and since that only accounts for a small portion of the weight increase (30-35kg) dont expect too much change it sounds like he is saying.

out of my element here, but in order to balance the weight from the PU and safety features (which they cant reduce) a longer wider car is a requirement that is not going away any time soon?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

2. If you are able to get your car underweight and you are then free to strategically place ballast to get up to minimum. Why use paint as your ballast? My point here is that if the taboo of unpainted modern cars has been broken (as it seems to be), everyone is going to jump on this even if their car is underweight already because it gives them just a tiny bit more ballast to play with.

Why leave performance on the table by painting the car? I expect these cars are meeting just the bare minimum sponsorship requirements with respect to paint or anything else applied to the bodywork.

Richard

the one car that is under weight is apparently Alpine and they look to have a fully painted car.

we dont know how much under the weight they are but it seems to be enough (relative to the others) that they can paint their car normally while benefiting from having room and weight enough to play with ballast.

will see what happens as the year goes on, maybe they will opt to paint less of the car/have more ballast to play with but for now they seem to be fine with a normal paint job?

it is Renault/Alpine tho so im not entirely sure they care about being all that competitive.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

There are many things that have contributed to weight gain.

Nice post. Along with that. I just checked to make sure I was remember it correctly, but along the lines of the driver+seat having a minimum weight, in a weirdly similar way, the power unit has a minimum weight and CG location. The weight is currently 151kg. Additionally there is minimum weights for various internal components (pistons, connecting rods, crank). I believe all of this exists to help address R&D costs. The point being there is no point in exploring exotic solutions (materials, manufacturing techniques, etc.) to reduce power unit weight as there is no point in getting under weight if the minimum and CG is already set. So no need to build under weight and then ballast to create a low CG.

The point of this comment is that the power units could potentially weigh less. But at what cost from an R&D and manufacturing perspective. And I think this minimum weight has crept up recently from 150 to 151kg. Not sure why, but my guess is maybe to account for extra mandated sensors or something like that.

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

the one car that is under weight is apparently Alpine and they look to have a fully painted car.

we dont know how much under the weight they are but it seems to be enough (relative to the others) that they can paint their car normally while benefiting from having room and weight enough to play with ballast.

will see what happens as the year goes on, maybe they will opt to paint less of the car/have more ballast to play with but for now they seem to be fine with a normal paint job?

it is Renault/Alpine tho so im not entirely sure they care about being all that competitive.

I am not sure, but I think I heard Red Bull is under weight? And they are not 100% painted if I remember correctly.

Overall, I don't expect all cars to move to all black and with just FIA required markings on the car. But I do think that short of FIA mandating the cars must be painted, that "bare carbon" is here to stay for now at some level on many cars.

Richard

[Richard C]

I haven't really followed the car launches that closely. But with the comment above that Alpine was fully painted. I had to look. And it does not look to be fully painted to me. Seems like a lot of black carbon.



Richard

[chillibowl]

you think?

the black parts looks glossier/finished differently then the black matte look of the Mercs?

earlier there was talk about different sorts of finishes for the carbon fiber so thats maybe what i am noticing?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

you think?

the black parts looks glossier/finished differently then the black matte look of the Mercs?

earlier there was talk about different sorts of finishes for the carbon fiber so thats maybe what i am noticing?

I would like a definitive answer as well. But yes, given the earlier talk of paint, vs. wrap, vs. bare carbon vs. carbon that has had at least "some" type of layer applied to it.

It sounds like (based upon comments on this site) that something is applied to the bare carbon. It might be a very light clear layer (that I guess could be matte or gloss) and as it doesn't have pigments (which increases weight)

Richard

[seanyb505]

Sounds like the fia should reclassify wrap/vinyls/adhesives/paint as safety equipment.
-Helps car stand out from racing surface
-Helps keep carbon shards together in oopsie event
-Helps car stand out when it's dark

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I would like a definitive answer as well. But yes, given the earlier talk of paint, vs. wrap, vs. bare carbon vs. carbon that has had at least "some" type of layer applied to it.

It sounds like (based upon comments on this site) that something is applied to the bare carbon. It might be a very light clear layer (that I guess could be matte or gloss) and as it doesn't have pigments (which increases weight)

Richard

The pictures you are seeing are generally renders or showcars, they're not the racecars.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by peebee2

The pictures you are seeing are generally renders or showcars, they're not the racecars.

I understand that, but they are showing their livery at the launches. And while I know livery can change, are we saying that we expect the Alpine to show up with a new livery that is very different than what they showed and that it will be fully painted? And while not clear in my post, my comments are less about the livery launch cars, but about race cars not being fully painted.

Richard

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

What has been the cause of the biggest weight gains over the last few years? I guess the battery for the kers deployment is one thing?

2022:
+20kg, 18" tyres and wheels
+20kg, Crash safety increases, stronger tethers + larger min. cockpit size for 2022
+2kg, Wheel fairings
+1kg, Wheel covers introduced
+1kg, Power unit weight increased (min. 151kg)


2019:
+5kg, Increase in driver weight from 75kg to 80kg

2018:
+20kg, Halo

2017:
+20kg, Wider car + wider tyres

2015:
+9kg, Correction for heavier power units than expected (min. 150kg), 2015

2014:
+49kg, Hybrid power unit introduced (min. 145kg), 2014

2013:
642kg min. weight for V8 F1 car in 2013

So you add up all of the above and you get 788kg, plus a little more for miscellaneous stuff which gives 798kg official minimum weight.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

What has been the cause of the biggest weight gains over the last few years? I guess the battery for the kers deployment is one thing?

Covid, lockdowns and lack of exercise for most

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Covid, lockdowns and lack of exercise for most

Yes for sure.

Richard

[Alan52]

Note for Australians.Foxtel/Kayo have signed a late deal for live coverage of testing.Each day live in full starting today at 5.50pm with a 2 hour highlights package each following morning at 9am.

[Skam85]

Yep very happy about this!

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Note for Australians.Foxtel/Kayo have signed a late deal for live coverage of testing.Each day live in full starting today at 5.50pm with a 2 hour highlights package each following morning at 9am.

Thanks for the heads up Alan. Great news