[LM24] Le Mans 2023 Test Day Thread

[Gerard C]

Ahead of all GTE's, why not but I very much doubt even if they've been faster today. Starting from the back for a 24 hour race is no big deal just an inconvenient in case of early SC. I hope their experience in the pits will help a bit, watta team! You're right to mention trouble-free, the slightest thing can send any car far back.
I wonder how they'll manage to keep the track-limits thing "working" for a long while…

[Mike E]

Any clues how their stint length compares with GTE?

[veeten]

Action! Yay!!
http.www.m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_bn3038zD4

[veeten]

Disregard above post, as I couldn't get the page to work properly. It was on you tube with today's testing shown.

[Adam43]

Hypercar comparison. WARNING! This includes deleted times! There were a lot of deleted times, including the best #6 time.

Average Lap time

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 5	Top 10	Top 20	Laps
1	51 Ferrari	3:29.504	3:29.901	3:30.576	3:31.608	64
2	6 Porsche	3:29.274	3:29.906	3:30.558	3:31.801	57
3	50 Ferrari	3:29.856	3:30.061	3:30.359	3:31.454	64
4	7 Toyota	3:29.827	3:30.541	3:31.122	3:31.955	68
5	5 Porsche	3:30.281	3:30.657	3:31.165	3:32.352	56
6	2 Cadillac	3:30.673	3:31.044	3:31.653	3:32.930	53
7	94 Peugeot	3:31.093	3:31.370	3:31.842	3:32.645	70
8	75 Porsche	3:29.905	3:31.575	3:35.733	4:02.185	29
9	8 Toyota	3:31.009	3:31.577	3:32.234	3:33.191	64
10	93 Peugeot	3:30.427	3:31.758	3:32.527	3:34.669	37
11	3 Cadillac	3:31.179	3:31.764	3:32.153	3:32.887	55
12	708 Glickenhaus	3:31.711	3:31.930	3:32.816	3:34.175	56
13	38 Porsche	3:31.290	3:31.937	3:33.125	3:34.891	55
14	4 Vanwall	3:31.392	3:31.954	3:33.072	3:34.805	62
15	311 Cadillac	3:30.597	3:32.385	3:33.247	3:34.378	55
16	709 Glickenhaus	3:31.878	3:33.885	3:34.830	3:36.022	64

How close is that! First time there are 16 top class cars on the grid since 2011. First time they have been this close EVER (I made that up, but who knows).

The Porsche is the surprise here, I think. Although they have been slowly improving this year in both WEC and IMSA. Ferrari being quicker than Toyota is not (even without the change in BoP that was likely and the relative difference isn’t that big). Porsche’s deleted super quick time helped, but even so. Did anyone see where they were naughty?

Toyota also weren’t helped by this off: https://twitter.com/onlyendurance/st...610562048?s=61
Hedley Verity hear it:

Originally Posted by Hedley Verity

Another red flag at the end of the session, something on the run to Tertre Rouge corner, heard a bang …y

Peugeot. The one with the faster lap ends up lower in the Top 5 because it didn’t get a full say of running in: https://twitter.com/onlyendurance/st...640910850?s=61
At least the other one did 70 laps - did it push its program a little more today to make up for the other one breaking?

Cadillac were a little anonymous on the timing sheets and they look a little bit down on top speed.

Glickenhaus and Vanwall look a little closer than they were, but they do drop away more on the consistency side. Which is to be expected I feel. They need more running.

[RL17]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Any clues how their stint length compares with GTE?

thought it had a pretty large tank - unless it's been really pegged back. It's going very well

[Adam43]

They did an 11 and a 12 lap stint. The 12 lap stint was with some slow running. Both these were in the morning. In the afternoon the longest was a pair of 8 lappers. With the time they had any longer wouldn’t have really been possible and still cycle through the drivers and potentially the rest of the program.

What are GTE stints? 14 laps?

[Adam43]

Average Lap time

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 5	Top 10	Top 20	Laps
1	31 Team WRT	3:36.243	3:37.094	3:37.746	3:39.279	64
2	23 United Autosports	3:36.915	3:38.207	3:38.886	3:39.835	63
3	28 JOTA	3:35.472	3:38.328	3:40.069	3:41.450	71
4	36 Alpine Elf Team	3:36.782	3:38.343	3:39.475	3:40.995	66
5	41 Team WRT	3:37.989	3:38.352	3:38.993	3:40.376	68
6	48 IDEC Sport	3:37.427	3:38.383	3:39.488	3:40.870	60
7	65 Panis Racing	3:36.434	3:38.497	3:39.868	3:41.414	64
8	35 Alpine Elf Team	3:36.644	3:38.538	3:39.765	3:41.011	60
9	63 Prema Racing	3:37.260	3:38.547	3:39.481	3:40.749	66
10	923 Racing Team Turkey	3:37.151	3:38.574	3:39.344	3:40.823	62
11	34 Inter Europol Competition	3:38.036	3:38.664	3:39.399	3:40.238	70
12	47 COOL Racing	3:36.409	3:38.841	3:40.072	3:41.380	56
13	9 Prema Racing	3:37.130	3:38.996	3:39.893	3:40.924	74
14	14 Nielsen Racing	3:38.583	3:39.113	3:39.674	3:41.674	55
15	22 United Autosports	3:38.138	3:39.259	3:40.486	3:42.412	56
16	45 Algarve Pro Racing	3:38.198	3:39.632	3:40.633	3:44.244	65
16	30 Duqueine Team	3:37.817	3:39.659	3:40.545	3:41.884	62
16	10 Vector Sport	3:37.163	3:39.707	3:40.919	3:42.239	68
16	37 COOL Racing	3:37.620	3:39.753	3:41.699	3:44.903	63
16	80 AF Corse	3:37.385	3:40.139	3:42.031	3:43.604	61
16	13 Tower Motorsports	3:37.414	3:40.288	3:41.475	3:44.454	60
16	43 DKR Engineering	3:39.629	3:40.338	3:41.103	3:42.525	63
16	39 Graff Racing	3:39.099	3:40.409	3:41.755	3:44.075	56
16	32 Inter Europol Competition	3:40.669	3:42.090	3:43.729	3:47.322	44

Warning! This contains deleted laps.

JOTA stuck a good lap time in. However WRT got some good consistent fast laps in.

The usuals are up there too, with at least one car.

Most got a decent amount of running in too. The #32 Inter Europol car lowest on 44, but the other team car #33 made up with that with 70 laps. Prema did well with 74 and 66 laps between two cars. One reason to do this was to make sure their reserve driver Juan Manuel Correa got some running.

[Adam43]

Average Lap time

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 5	Top 10	Top 20	Laps
1	86 GR Racing Porsche	3:55.285	3:56.320	3:57.036	3:59.757	62
2	66 JMW Motorsport Ferrari	3:56.088	3:56.622	3:57.032	3:57.859	61
3	54 AF Corse Ferrari	3:56.184	3:56.902	3:57.511	3:59.092	59
4	777 D'Station Racing Aston Martin	3:56.727	3:56.950	3:57.399	3:58.667	63
5	21 AF Corse Ferrari	3:56.751	3:57.042	3:57.457	3:58.087	51
6	57 Kessel Racing Ferrari	3:56.281	3:57.184	3:57.830	3:59.118	65
7	25 ORT by TF Aston Martin	3:55.922	3:57.262	3:58.432	4:00.316	62
8	77 Dempsey - Proton Racing Porsche	3:56.631	3:57.346	3:58.961	4:01.265	58
9	83 Richard Mille AF Corse Ferrari	3:57.282	3:57.416	3:57.790	3:58.997	59
10	60 Iron Lynx Porsche	3:56.972	3:57.864	3:58.691	4:01.170	56
11	74 Kessel Racing Ferrari	3:56.798	3:57.932	3:59.898	4:02.707	66
12	98 Northwest AMR Aston Martin	3:57.382	3:57.970	3:58.679	4:00.483	63
13	911 Proton Competition Porsche	3:57.570	3:58.100	3:59.101	4:01.544	57
14	85 Iron Dames Porsche	3:57.181	3:58.333	3:59.138	4:00.258	62
15	16 Proton Competition Porsche	3:57.916	3:58.581	3:58.938	4:01.202	59
16	72 TF Sport Aston Martin	3:58.032	3:58.587	3:59.250	4:00.470	64
17	56 Project 1 - AO Porsche	3:57.814	3:58.657	3:59.693	4:01.293	64
18	33 Corvette Racing Chevrolet	3:57.768	3:58.929	3:59.677	4:00.535	55
19	88 Proton Competition Porsche	3:56.584	3:59.024	4:03.299	4:08.262	38
20	100 Walkenhorst Motorsport Ferrari	3:57.186	3:59.710	4:02.019	4:05.228	53
21	55 GMB Motorsport Aston Martin	3:59.286	4:00.810	4:03.777	4:06.054	59

Warning! These contain deleted laps!

Also, as with the other tables, Top 20 laps may be pushing it to get a decent average. Depends on what programs people are doing and how many times they stopped or were hindered by slow running.

Porsche got some times in. Ferrari had a lot of consistent fast laps. An Aston up there too. The Corvette is down the list, but surely just running through a conservative program? Although the harsh reality of one car shows itself on a list like this.

[Adam43]

And the main takeaway of all this?
It is just test day. For a 24 hour race qualifying doesn’t matter and practice less, so test day is practically irrelevant!

This will change and certainly times will get quicker. Not because of sandbagging, but just that is what happens as people improve and the sessions become competitive.

But let’s force a red hot take for the sake of it. And that is:
Blummin’ ‘eck it is close. These tables show the difference between the fastest and slowest best lap, the average of the Top 5 and top 10 for each car. Split by class. I then also show the “spread” in each class by showing the standard deviation.

Max - Min (s)	Fastest	Top 5	Top 10
Hypercar	2.6	4	5.4
LMP2	1.1	1	1.2
GTE-Am	0.9	1.1	1.8

Std. Dev. (s)	Fastest	Top 5	Top 10
Hypercar	0.8	1	1.5
LMP2	1.1	1	1.2
GTE-Am	0.9	1.1	1.8

I didn’t do for Top 20 as by then every class has some cars that weren’t setting proper times. Even at Top 10 there are hints this is already happening.

Forced to do another hot take I’ll go with track limits. 57 cars had times deleted due to track limits in the first session. 59 cars were pinged in the second session. Let’s hope this gets it out of their system!

[DistortedSmile]

Video of the Camaro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-YeSG4xxog
It sounds fantastic, wonder how it compares to the Cadillacs in person?

Originally Posted by tomcug

That's a bit unexpected I'd say, I thought that car is going to be slower than GTEs.

I think you're reading too much into it, it's just the test day and none of the GTEs were pushing, 3:56.088 is not representative of what these cars can really do, for comparison AF Corse did a 3:46.011 during qualifying in 2021

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by DistortedSmile

Video of the Camaro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-YeSG4xxog
It sounds fantastic, wonder how it compares to the Cadillacs in person?

Trackside, there's little doubt that it is both louder and more edgy/focused in it's engine note. The Caddyaks sound great, but at certain parts of the circuit the engine note is more of a drone, particularly when they change up into top gear. Don't get me wrong, they do sound wonderful, and you can certainly 'feel' them as they pass, especially under acceleration, but Nascar wins this battle. Now, a side by side comparison with a Corvette GT1 or a Panoz LMP might give a different result, but this is 2023.

It's all very subjective, but for my money, the best sounding engine this year is (still) the Pipo in the Glick, followed by the 'pumped' Gibson in the Vanwall. Aside from the Americans, the rest are pretty anonymous (especially disappointing is the Ferrari, I had expectations, but maybe I've missed a subtlety in it's character).

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Trackside, there's little doubt that it is both louder and more edgy/focused in it's engine note. The Caddyaks sound great, but at certain parts of the circuit the engine note is more of a drone, particularly when they change up into top gear. Don't get me wrong, they do sound wonderful, and you can certainly 'feel' them as they pass, especially under acceleration, but Nascar wins this battle. Now, a side by side comparison with a Corvette GT1 or a Panoz LMP might give a different result, but this is 2023.

It's all very subjective, but for my money, the best sounding engine this year is (still) the Pipo in the Glick, followed by the 'pumped' Gibson in the Vanwall. Aside from the Americans, the rest are pretty anonymous (especially disappointing is the Ferrari, I had expectations, but maybe I've missed a subtlety in it's character).

The Ferrari sounds like a tractor on video. I was hoping for better in real life but it seems it still sounds pretty bad? Unfortunately, the 296 GT3 sounds very similar, so we will be hearing more farm machinery in future...

[Ferrari333SP]

I remember hearing the Panoz cars in person and almost blowing my ear drums out; those things were catastrophically loud

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

I remember hearing the Panoz cars in person and almost blowing my ear drums out; those things were catastrophically loud

They were simply wonderful, and the perfect foil for the also wonderful Judd's of that era.

End of nostalgia trip...

[Gerard C]

Not only this Camaro sounds wonderful (thanks for the links DistordedSmile) but its dam fast and its accelerations are very good too, even when compared to an LMP2. Handling seems great, no doubt it's in the right hands. Seems it has already conquered a part of the public. Good for the show.

[Mike E]

Button says it understeers a bit, has good mechanical grip and huge torque. So it accelerates well out of slow corners and gets to top speed quickly. Top speed is lower than GTE top speed but getting there quicker is often more useful.

Brakes not so great though...

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Brakes not so great though...

Hope they can replace the whole stuff quickly, calipers/pads/rotors, during a pit stop. Did not see them bringing the car into the garage on "skate boards" tho.

[Mike E]

Oof!

'Tower Motorsports (#13), Nielsen Racing (#14), Team Duquiene (#30), AF Corse (#80), and Racing Team Turkey (#923) will each have to serve a 20 minute stop-and-hold penalty at the start of FP1 on Wednesday (or the first Free Practice session that each car takes part in.'

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...-notebook.html

[Truckosaurus]

I assume it was not by accident that several teams ran the illegal ride height sensors, and the data they've got is worth the 20 minute tea break.

[Gerard C]

Well, 20 minute is a lot but if they gamble they must not be caught.


During the race they wont be able to police the track limits, its impossible. Imagine what is asked to the marshalls. Playing devil's advocate, there's not enough room to have several cars in the Stop&Go area not mentioning that a penalty must not be observed during a pit stop. If they are too strict, we could see strange situations.

[Adam43]

I suspect that they didn’t realise they couldn’t run them at the test day. More they falsely made the assumption that it’s just testing. Nor did they know what a penalty would be for the same reason.

Sometimes the most likely reason is stupidity or ignorance rather than conceit or intent.

[Gerard C]

Probably right. But at this level…

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Probably right. But at this level…

I agree. They should have checked.

And I also agree it is probably worth more than that 20 minutes. What set up change could they have done to try this. That is only an extra in and out quick stint.

I was wondering is this the same ride height check we used to see years ago with the small light pointing at the floor. Always in the ‘vettes if I recall correctly.

[Mike E]

Also, it's not like the Oreca 07 is a new and mysterious vehicle.