Disgraceful Article About ChampCar

[DNQ]

This article was already brought up in another thread, but I think it deserves it's own thread:

No Champs in third-rate Indy race
Paul Gover
25oct04

LOCAL hero David Besnard was a surprising seventh in the Indy 300 race for Champ Cars yesterday. Sadly, his dream finish was more a reflection of the dismal state of the American series than Besnard's potential to become the next Michael Schumacher.

More:Here

What a disgraceful article about ChampCar, the idiot who wrote this obviously has NO idea what he is talking about It's proof the Australian media has NO idea about auto racing.

"The Champ Car contest was a third-rate show with a rag-tag bunch of unknowns and pay racers who were slow and unspectacular."

Third-rate show? Yeah, well it was a damn-sight better than the Snormula One race at Albert Park this year, yet somehow F1 has a halo around it.

"Nobody really cared about the result"

What a head - just because he doesn't care about the battle for the championship doesn't mean others don't.

"the V8 Supercar teams are waiting for it to collapse so they can become the headline act on the Gold Coast."

What rubbish. It's mutually beneficial for CART & V8 Supercar to share the weekend.

This article really ****es me off, it's about time Australian media give motorsport some decent coverage for once. Unless someone dies or there is a brawl, our sport just gets rubbished.

[Brian W Keske]

Well, I think there are many Americans that feel the same way about the series, thus the extreme drop-off in attendance at many of the venues, especially the natural terain circuits.

You are from Australia, surely you know how popular the V8 series is. From what I read, they attracted 240,000 over a four day period in Adelaide this year, with 80,000 the day of the race. The reports of 300,000 for four days for this race also seems to be more a reflection of the V8 series, rather than the other way around.

Not a pretty article, but perhaps some truth here. Did you attend?

[The Snout]

I have to disagree that the fans are only there for the V8s.

The 2004 F1 Australian GP according to SAP’s attendance count figures were: Thursday 23,596, Friday - 55,211, Saturday – 74,450, Sunday – 93,631, Total - 246,888

So are we also saying that because V8s were on the F1 program that F1 also has no presence in Australia, and that all the fans only came to see the V8s there too ?

Not likely. I've been to both, annually, and I don't see vast tracts of vacant seats appear because the V8s have ran their races and people have left. And I didn't see it yesterday either.

[Brian W Keske]

F1 was not at Adelaide this year. So those 240,000 were 'on their own'.

As a stand alone event, I would say there is much intrest in the V8's. I used Adelaine as an example as it is a street race.

[Robert Ryan]

Brian Keske I agree with the article, it has bben an understanding for several years that this has been the case. Now people are less afraid to actually print the truth.I found the Champcar race lacked a lot of professionalism. Maybe in 5yrs it will get back to its former glory who knows. Yes I have taked to people in the V8Supercar scene, who wish that Surfers will become another Adelaide.

[The Snout]

No argument that V8s are popular, but that isn't what's being said.

What's being said is the crowd number is so high because the V8s are on the program. If that's the case, I'd expect a mass exodus at about 1pm on Sunday after the V8s ran. Didn't happen.

As for V8s people wanting the race. Yeah, I'd want a lucrative contract and more money too.

[Brian W Keske]

Snout, what I was responding too more than anything was: "What rubbish. It's mutually beneficial for CART & V8 Supercar to share the weekend."

I don't really see how it is mutually benificial. Clearly, take the cost to have Champ Car at this race and give it back the promotor, and I see it, he actually makes more money for himself; even with the few that showed up simply for CCWS.

I noticed that most the signage around the track are companies that also sponsor the V8 series, so they would have been there regardless of Champ Car.

[The Snout]

Brian, the race weekend according to the Qld government isn't about the event making a profit (Though that would be nice). According to Peter Beattie who is the state premier, it's about the 50 million dollars the events brings into the economy, and "because this puts Queensland and the Gold Coast on the national and international map."

The Queensland Government uses it's promotional arm Queensland Events for the race.

"Queensland Events was established in 1989 with a specific charter to create significant economic activity and lift the national and international profile of Queensland through securing and hosting major world-class events."

Point is back in 1991 they felt that having a major openwheel series helped achieve that 'international' objective. They still feel that way.

Mr Beattie said under new owners - Open Wheel Racing Series - the event had a "long-term future".

"It all works and we're happy with it at the moment and don't see why that'll change," he said. They have a contract until 2008.

While if it's more profitable just having it as a V8 race can be debated, fact of the matter is having it only as a V8 race doesn't fit the objective of Queensland Events or the state government in raising an 'international' profile. That's where CCWS steps in.

The day may or may not come where they feel that they can raise their international profile using V8's alone. But, with 300,000+ , do they really want to mess with their winning formula ? We'll have to wait until the 2009 scheduled is released to find out.

[DNQ]

Originally posted by Brian W Keske
Not a pretty article, but perhaps some truth here. Did you attend?

I attended 2001-2002, but couldn't make it this year because of work commitments.

The average Australian race fan goes to the Indy because it's "The Indy" - they don't go there because it's a V8 race or a CART race ... they go there because it's a brilliant event. CART and V8 supercars mean it's an absolutely brilliant event for Australian revheads, but it's also well publicised so that Joe Average turns up as well. Indy is CLEARLY the focus of the weekend - if it wasn't, why would Paul Tracy be the cover story of the sports section of the Sunday Mail?

If the Indy was a V8 race only, it would NOT pull in 300,000 over the weekend. Comparison to Adelaide is not fair.

[Brian W Keske]

Originally posted by DNQ
Comparison to Adelaide is not fair.

Why?

[Brian W Keske]

Thanks for the info Snout.

[DNQ]

Originally posted by Brian W Keske
Why?

- The population of Adelaide is at least 4-5 times more than the Gold Coast (Brisbane is about 100km north of the Gold Coast).
- The Adelaide race is built on the success of the F1 race. The V8 supercar street race in Canberra attracted NOWHERE NEAR as many people as in Adelaide. Yes, the V8s are VERY popular in Australia, but how does that prove any weakness in CART?
- The Gold Coast race attracted massive fans BEFORE the V8 Supercars even joined the bill with a championship race.
- September/October must compete with the Bathrust 1000, Australian MotoGP and Rugby League and AFL Grand Finals. In April the Adelaide 500 is the only major event.

[Robert Ryan]

I think the V8Supercar races were very good. I can see it going to all V8Supercar event with maybe more relevant supports to keep everyone happy. Why the Champcar drivers would be pride of place on a local newspaper would be to advertise a unique event. If you asked 90% of the people attending who the Champcar drivers were , the bulk would not have a clue.

[Robert Ryan]

DNQ,
Adelaide is also a lot more remote than Surfers and not a Tourist destination. The population is debatble, therer is 1.5 million in Adelaide and easily twice that number around the Gold Coast and Brisbane.
The V8 Race is not built on the success of the F1 event, they are SEDANS not openwheelers.
Canberra was raced in the middle of winter, a mojor mistake, the place was freezing cold.
Yes CART did attract massive numbers 13yrs ago. That was 13yrs ago when the series was building itself into a major series.

[Brian W Keske]

Originally posted by DNQ

- The Adelaide race is built on the success of the F1 race.

Well, I guess Long Beach should not worry about losing CCWS (or replacing it with the IRL) then either.

[DNQ]

Originally posted by Robert Ryan
The V8 Race is not built on the success of the F1 event, they are SEDANS not openwheelers.

If there had never been an F1 race in Adelaide, I doubt the event would have been such a massive succes from day one.

And the CART crowds at the Coast have always been quite healthy, REGARDLESS of the presence of a V8 Championship round or not.

I don't see what the argument is here? Adelaide gets a big crowd for a V8 race, so that means CART is weak?

It's like saying "Le Mans draws a big crowd, therefore sportscar racing is healthier than F1"

[The Snout]

If you change the Gold Coast race to a V8 race, does it provide the international exposure that the Qld Government needs in order to justify it's funding of the race ? Would a guy like Brian in Cleveland USA even know of or care, or perhaps even visit Surfers Paradise if it was only a round of a national touring car series.

Millions overseas saw the Gold Coast yesterday, you wouldn't get that as a V8 race alone. Even if it had the same amount of spectators, which I believe it wouldn't.

[marcus]

I think both classes did a top job on the weekend.

they both provided excellent and Professional racing and work very well together in this country.

The article is By Paul Gover , enough said !!!!!!!!!

[Brian W Keske]

Originally posted by The Snout
Would a guy like Brian in Cleveland USA even know of or care, or perhaps even visit Surfers Paradise if it was only a...

Yes. I'm a big sportscar and sedan racing fan. I would love to have the opportunity to see these races regardless of CCWS.

[LordClyde]

Originally posted by Brian W Keske
Well, I think there are many Americans that feel the same way about the series, thus the extreme drop-off in attendance at many of the venues, especially the natural terain circuits.

You are from Australia, surely you know how popular the V8 series is. From what I read, they attracted 240,000 over a four day period in Adelaide this year, with 80,000 the day of the race. The reports of 300,000 for four days for this race also seems to be more a reflection of the V8 series, rather than the other way around.

Not a pretty article, but perhaps some truth here. Did you attend?

brian, i totally agree with all your coments on champcars, may be you should go down under one day and experience their motorsport firsthand.

[Brian W Keske]

Originally posted by LordClyde
brian, i totally agree with all your coments on champcars, may be you should go down under one day and experience their motorsport firsthand.

Well, Le Mans may have to come first. But who knows? I just may make it some day.

[LordClyde]

Brian , if you do happen to make it Downunder, you will be made most welcome.

[Growling Ferret]

Lets be realistic, Gover wasn't far from the truth.

Watching Champcar these days is similar to Procar in its dying days. I don't see any potential F1 drivers in the field - there is no Montoya or any superstars...

Spectating at Gold Coast Indy isn't about the racing, its a Alcohol/Party/Breast watching weekend... Its like punters who go to the Melbourne Cup - a massive drink, perve and party whilst an event goes on the other side of the fence...



-Editted to remove questionable language.

[macdaddy]

You don't see any "potential F1 drivers in the field"?
Are we watching the same races?

And so what if spectating isn't about the racing, it's more about the party? The same could likely be said about any of the Canadian events - and it's because of the massive promotion that is done.

[Brian W Keske]

macdaddy, I think the point is (at least for me) is that many many CCWS fans 'hold up' races such as these, (and their attendance numbers), as a signal of CCWS's strength and 'obvious' popularity.

I've seen some reports (not necessrily here) stating 'Champ Car numbers' at Surfer's were....

Well, I believe that can be the misleading...at best. Perhaps true at one time, but not so much today. I can also remember when CART races were more about the racing, not the party.