'10 LMS Finalé • Silverstone • '10 ILMC Round 1

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

@chernaudi: Check the timing pdf on the LMS website. The 2nd, 3rd and 6th stint of the #1 Peugeot were 1 lap longer than those of the #8 Audi. So your suggestion that Peugeot switched to fuel saving tactics late in the race, is incorrect. They had better fuel economy from the start of the race.

For the record, this is the length of the stints of the 3 diesel cars:

• #1 Peugeot: 27, 29, 29, 28, 29, 28
• #4 Oreca: 28, 28, 29, 30, 28, 27
• #8 Audi: 27, 28, 28, 28, 28, 28, 3

Nicely planned and executed strategy by Peugeot I would say.

[carsten66]

C'mon guys we have had 45 cars on the grid in Silverstone... not every thread finally have to result in a verbal battle of pros and cons of Audi-Peugeot stuff...

[henk4]

Originally Posted by carsten66

C'mon guys we have had 45 cars on the grid in Silverstone... not every thread finally have to result in a verbal battle of pros and cons of Audi-Peugeot stuff...

Right, Strakka won because they had the nicest girls on the grid...

[henk4]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Actually, they also change driver during the first stop. In fact, the Oreca team did an extra driver change:
Lapierre -> Sarrazin -> Lapierre -> Sarrazin compared to
Davidson -> Minassian -> Davidson and
Bernhard -> Capello -> Bernhard.
This gave the drivers equal driving time, but it ruined their chance of victory.

Second place was enough for Sarrazin to become LMES champion. And nobody would imagine that Peugeot would let a client team beat their own car in the first place.

[Tom908V12]

Originally Posted by manthey

I love this forum because I'm not so documented as you and often I find interesting things ..so please can you explain the difference between IMSA pit rules and silverstone-le mans regulation referred here?
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=231

what about the fact bentley run LMP2 spec tyres instead lmp1?
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=229

thanks!

Edit: wrong quote sorry

[old man]

Originally Posted by carsten66

C'mon guys we have had 45 cars on the grid in Silverstone... not every thread finally have to result in a verbal battle of pros and cons of Audi-Peugeot stuff...

Have to agree, lots more to talk about:
I heard that the other GT1 Saleen that had a big accident last time out wanted to rebuild on another chassis (?) and was given authority by the ACO unless the other GT1 competitors objected, they did!
Excellent and rather tense race in GT2 with lots of head scratching as to where all the cars would be in the refuelling sequence when the race ended as GT2 would do a lot less laps less than LMP1, the question was, how many less? (23 in the end) The Aston was doing 2 laps per tank less than the Ferrari I understand and so was expecting second place before the stop and go, rather than a win. Engine development required Prodrive please!
Warren Hughes and Jody Firth had a great weekend!
The Drayson team did well and could have done better but could not quite match the best petrol cars. They need to race against that level of opposition as opposed to what Gary Watkins in Autosport describes as a "motley collection of privateers" in the ALMS!!!
There was a very long queue for autographs at the Beechdean truck, I hope "our Nige" did not dissapoint?

[Tom908V12]

Originally Posted by villamas

The start

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTvta15W3o0

Audi vs Peugeot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nobImAg8MI

Cool vids, thanks

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by carsten66

C'mon guys we have had 45 cars on the grid in Silverstone... not every thread finally have to result in a verbal battle of pros and cons of Audi-Peugeot stuff...

We're not doing that. We (well, most of us anyway) are merely emphasising that this was actually a fairly dominant Peugeot win.... Those who were at the track like me will I suspect have felt it even more keenly.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by old man

Have to agree, lots more to talk about:
I heard that the other GT1 Saleen that had a big accident last time out wanted to rebuild on another chassis (?) and was given authority by the ACO unless the other GT1 competitors objected, they did!
Excellent and rather tense race in GT2 with lots of head scratching as to where all the cars would be in the refuelling sequence when the race ended as GT2 would do a lot less laps less than LMP1, the question was, how many less? (23 in the end) The Aston was doing 2 laps per tank less than the Ferrari I understand and so was expecting second place before the stop and go, rather than a win. Engine development required Prodrive please!
Warren Hughes and Jody Firth had a great weekend!
The Drayson team did well and could have done better but could not quite match the best petrol cars. They need to race against that level of opposition as opposed to what Gary Watkins in Autosport describes as a "motley collection of privateers" in the ALMS!!!
There was a very long queue for autographs at the Beechdean truck, I hope "our Nige" did not dissapoint?

Nige never raced, so he could not disappoint
The LMP1 petrol cars had a nice dice, the Rebellions between themselves, and with Drayson when Cocker was driving.
The supremacy of Strakka is mainly due to Danny "four seconds faster than everybody else" Watss, who singlehandedly corrected the mess his sponsor had left him in. Both Oak cars had to start from the back of the grid, so did relatively well in the end. It was also funny to see the Gallardo GT2 one spot ahead of the same liveried Aston on the grid. In spite of its slow speed, the Lambo deserves praise for having finished the race without any problem, rather uncommon for a hardly tried car.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

We're not doing that. We (well, most of us anyway) are merely emphasising that this was actually a fairly dominant Peugeot win.... Those who were at the track like me will I suspect have felt it even more keenly.

you must have had the same feeling after 35 minutes then: "Race over...."

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by henk4

you must have had the same feeling after 35 minutes then: "Race over...."

Oh definitely - although frankly I thought that as soon as Davidson passed McNish. It was disappointing to see the Audi go out, but even up to that point I'd already concluded that the only way Audi would win this race was if the Peugeots broke.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Oh definitely - although frankly I thought that as soon as Davidson passed McNish. It was disappointing to see the Audi go out, but even up to that point I'd already concluded that the only way Audi would win this race was if the Peugeots broke.

Yes, sure, and for those who feed the Audi-Pug fight here it should be noted that on the grid we could witness a very friendly talk between Dr. Ulrich and Olivier Quesnel, and that it is also common practice that the Audi and Peugeot teams get together after a race for a drink. They fully realise that with either one being not present, under the current regulations any victory of one of them is only hollow.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by old man

The Drayson team did well and could have done better but could not quite match the best petrol cars. They need to race against that level of opposition as opposed to what Gary Watkins in Autosport describes as a "motley collection of privateers" in the ALMS!!!

And yet they ran on a fuel that the car is not set up for in its normal running. No difference in mapping nor throttle response or any of those little niggling details that make the difference when looking to be able to perform at 10-Tenths, right?



L.P.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Oh definitely - although frankly I thought that as soon as Davidson passed McNish. It was disappointing to see the Audi go out, but even up to that point I'd already concluded that the only way Audi would win this race was if the Peugeots broke.

Yes I felt that - although with the Dream Team still in the race you always get the impression that something might happen - they would certainly have pushed the Peugeots a little harder but I don't think it would have changed the Peugeot win - may have been a battle for second though?

[henk4]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

And yet they ran on a fuel that the car is not set up for in its normal running. No difference in mapping nor throttle response or any of those little niggling details that make the difference when looking to be able to perform at 10-Tenths, right?



L.P.

Are you actually saying that any car that runs in ALMS cannot be remapped and can therefore not be run in Europe? (or if necessary be fitted with another engine?). So what did Highcroft, Risi and P&M do for Le Mans this year?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by henk4

Are you actually saying that any car that runs in ALMS cannot be remapped and can therefore not be run in Europe? (or if necessary be fitted with another engine?). So what did Highcroft, Risi and P&M do for Le Mans this year?

Wow, that is some exquisite reading between the lines. But incorrect!

It means that they do not have the history with the car running with that type of fuel and the subsequent overall set-up, which gives them a slight disadvantage. Highcroft, Risi and Corvette Racing have reams of data for running on E-10.

Drayson did well, I thought, given the circumstance. But could have done better, IMO, had they been running the same fuel and setup that they have been running all year in the ALMS!


L.P.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Wow, that is some exquisite reading between the lines. But incorrect!

It means that they do not have the history with the car running with that type of fuel and the subsequent overall set-up, which gives them a slight disadvantage. Highcroft, Risi and Corvette Racing have reams of data for running on E-10.

Drayson did well, I thought, given the circumstance. But could have done better, IMO, had they been running the same fuel and setup that they have been running all year in the ALMS!


L.P.

that makes a bit more sense
and yes, they did well, and with a full pro crew they might even have done better...(until their front wheel fell off, that is)

[manthey]

Originally Posted by Tom908V12

Edit: wrong quote sorry

yes I inverted the references however the main points are:

"IMSA will be using their pit rules" differences with aco-ilmc??


"Peugeot should be fortunate that they didn't have to do as Bentley and run LMP2 spec tires. That advantage will go away next year, too"

why bentley sped 8 used lmp2 spec tires instead lmp1?

grazie

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by manthey

yes I inverted the references however the main points are:

"IMSA will be using their pit rules" differences with aco-ilmc??

Two wheelguns for IMSA as opposed to one.

"Peugeot should be fortunate that they didn't have to do as Bentley and run LMP2 spec tires. That advantage will go away next year, too"

why bentley sped 8 used lmp2 spec tires instead lmp1?

grazie

Because LMGTP had to.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Also, IMSA will be using their pit rules, so advantage Audi on that, too.

Originally Posted by manthey

yes I inverted the references however the main points are:

"IMSA will be using their pit rules" differences with aco-ilmc??
grazie

As Dead-Eye pointed out:
ALMS Art.#18.5.2 allows 4 people and 2 guns (pg.#80)
while
ACO Art.#18.5.2 allows 2 people and 1 gun. (pg.#13)

As to the inference that the race would be run to ALMS rules, that is incorrect! Sebring ran to ACO rules and as expressed by the series earlier and reinforced by the very top line of the Petit Supplemental Regulations!


L.P.

[chernaudi]

But at Sebring they still used two wheel guns per stop--ACO technical regs apply, but IMSA used their own pit rules.

I'm also wondering that if Peugeot didn't really back off to save fuel, why did they lose 10 seconds to the #8 Audi during one stint? Couldn't have been traffic as the #8's handling problem lead to cautious driving in traffic. Either the Pug guys knew it was close or the backed off because of the various incidents that were happening though out the race.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

or the backed off because of the various incidents that were happening though out the race.

There's your answer, I guess... they had enough in hand so they decided to take it easier when things were going mad on the track amongst other cars.

[chernaudi]

Only other thing I could think of is that the Audi understeer issue became managable and the driver was asked to turn up the wick during the stint where the Audi ate 10 seconds out of the Peugeot lead. The R15 especially seems to get worse fuel mileage than the 908 when it does run faster lap times (makes sense: more speed=more power. More power=increased fuel consupmption).

[gwyllion]

All the Audi stints were the same length (28 laps on one tank).

[henk4]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Only other thing I could think of is that the Audi understeer issue became managable and the driver was asked to turn up the wick during the stint where the Audi ate 10 seconds out of the Peugeot lead. The R15 especially seems to get worse fuel mileage than the 908 when it does run faster lap times (makes sense: more speed=more power. More power=increased fuel consupmption).

Perhaps you should accept that the #8 Audi never posed a real threat for the leading cars, and that the Pigs were just doing their own race.....