[WEC] FIA World Endurance Championship

[Acid09]

I don't, there has to be a German WEC round.

The LMS races on the Nürburgring were always quite entertaining, the only problem were the spectator numbers.

[Fogelhund]

btw... I think it is more probable that it would be PLM to stay as a World Championship event, then Sebring

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

btw... I think it is more probable that it would be PLM to stay as a World Championship event, then Sebring

Why exactly? In terms of heritage and history, PLM can't compete with Sebring...and the track is more special as well.

Plus, Sebring and it's traditional March date is important for Le Mans preperations.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Why exactly? In terms of heritage and history, PLM can't compete with Sebring...and the track is more special as well.

Plus, Sebring and it's traditional March date is important for Le Mans preperations.

Heritage and History? That means something to fans, nothing to business.

If you are Don Panoz, looking at slowly selling off assets, do you sell a Leasehold at an airport, or a track that is more valued as future real estate development in a deeply depressed real estate market. Right, so it is more probable that Sebring is sold, agreed?

If you are Don Panoz, sitting on the ACO board, do you want that single North American event to be at the track you still own, or the one you sold?

[JAG]

The WEC grid will consist of 70%+ European teams, the same as F1, WRC and WTCC, but the hope must be, like those series, you begin to attract teams and sponsors from emerging economies like China, India and South America.

If you look at what's on the horizon in NA racing, Cheverolet and Honda are involved in Indycar, and if US DTM is to get off the ground Audi, BMW and Mercedes will need to put in significant investment, they're potential ALMS entrants going to other NA series.

[Francesco]

the US DTM series is far from reality... i think that for the next 2 years it will be "WIP", there are a lot of things to work on! i feel that is much more realistic to have an involvement from Audi, Merc and BMW on the GARRA side with "GT3 like" machinery...

but it's very clear that the field will have it's bones in the European teams, ALMS really needs to step up their game and make something to attract entries in LMP, GT will be ok for a lot of time with the involvement of Porsche, Ferrari and GM that have a really good marketing exposure from ALMS

on the schedule side i think that the main problem for Germany is that the 'ring is near bankrupt and until that situation is solved (as we all hope) there aren't many other tracks in Germany that can handle that kind of field... the track may be not very exciting but it's certainly far better than some other LMS tracks from the past years, particularly speaking of structures, pits and so on...

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Francesco

ALMS really needs to step up their game and make something to attract entries in LMP, GT will be ok for a lot of time with the involvement of Porsche, Ferrari and GM that have a really good marketing exposure from ALMS...

Unless the Ferrari's all go somewhere else...

and BMW money goes to GARRA and US DTM...

They are on a brink right now, and selling assets.... outside of window dressing, and fluff PR, I don't see anything going on, or any signs of life.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by PorscheCurves

Don't know for sure but I'd say it's either Grade 2 or 3. If it's Grade 2 then it's allowed to host races with LMPs.

From the 2009 list that've found here it's below grade 2.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The bigger question is going to quickly become, how to keep the regional series relevant. In all probability Europe will survive, but it is probable that the ALMS will not. The question then becomes, what will happen with Sebring, will it be removed, with no stops in North America at all? The other question being, how many entries will this World Championship get. Will entries in the low 20's suffice as a draw? LMS has threatened not to be involved, and if the ALMS fails there is no support categories in North America.

This whole thing is foolish, and will come crashing down in a few years.

The ALMS will probably have to follow the future LMS model in regard to having lower cost prototype classes and probably GT classes as well. They may have to equalize LMP1s and LMP2s, but we'll see what the car counts are later on. Something that could help the regional series is if the WEC does not have an LMP2 and/or GTE-Am categories. My guess is that the WEC will have field fillers though so I won't hold my breath for that one.

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

btw... I think it is more probable that it would be PLM to stay as a World Championship event, then Sebring

I tend to agree. It seems that it may be easier to combine a South American event with the PLM date rather than the Sebring date. Am I wrong to think that?

I think PLM would be better as well. Teams from Europe may come to Sebring anyway to prepare for the WEC and Le Mans. PLM is a little less likely to draw outside interest.

I guess the key question is where/when the ACO wants to schedule the Asian events. A bunch of late season Asian events could jeopardize the late season American events.

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

I disagree with both. An endurance racing championship can't have so many races. It's impossible to televise all of them. I vote for 2 or 3 European races, 2 North American and 2 or 3 in other continents. Small privateers will run in continental championships.

Don't be fooled, the demands of the manufacturers are going to drive the decision making of the WEC. They are going to get what they want. Does Peugeot and Audi want privateers to fluff up the fields? If so, my guess is that there will be fewer rather than more races. If they don't care about car counts, then maybe there will be more races.

As for TV, that could be solved by streaming the races live on the Internet and putting highlight packages on Eurosport/ESPN/whatever. Ok, I better start running before the lynch mob comes to get me!

[JAG]

F1 has 21 rounds, the WRC 13, I think the WEC will end up with around 8.

A typical LMS grid consists of amateurs racing for fun, upto factory teams and drivers, keeping costs under control is a major factor.

By it's very nature the WEC will be contested by manufactuer's and major privateers, if a business case can be made for a race in India, backed by a media and travel package, they'll want to compete.

Amateurs who compete in a full season will tend to be the likes of Krohn, Tucker, Goh, Van Merksteijn etc., those who can indulge their passion for motorsport, if the series appeals.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by JAG

F1 has 21 rounds, the WRC 13, I think the WEC will end up with around 8.

A typical LMS grid consists of amateurs racing for fun, upto factory teams and drivers, keeping costs under control is a major factor.

By it's very nature the WEC will be contested by manufactuer's and major privateers, if a business case can be made for a race in India, backed by a media and travel package, they'll want to compete.

Amateurs who compete in a full season will tend to be the likes of Krohn, Tucker, Goh, Van Merksteijn etc., those who can indulge their passion for motorsport, if the series appeals.

A class split into professionals and amateurs could also be made, where the professionals can points from 8 out of 8 races. Where as Amateurs for an example could maximum gain points from 5-6 races out of the race.
In that way the amateurs will save some expenses, but still being able to win a part of the championship.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by CTD

A class split into professionals and amateurs could also be made, where the professionals can points from 8 out of 8 races. Where as Amateurs for an example could maximum gain points from 5-6 races out of the race.
In that way the amateurs will save some expenses, but still being able to win a part of the championship.

There are so many ways such a rule could be exploited, I really don't like it.

[helgi]

I always was wondering why Europeans like to bring a "World" status to a European champs.

The best example is F1. OK, there're drivers from all over the world (most are Europeans). But in other terms it's a sort of Formula Aurora. 8 out of 12 teams are based in Great Britain! No teams or manufacturers from America or Asia. And 8 races in Europe + 7 races in Asia. It's an Eurasian champ, not a World one. It could be a World champ in Middle Ages. Or they should better return it's original name - World Champ for drivers.

WRC. In tearms of teams it's a little bit better. There're 3 teams from America. But they can not finish on the podium because top-5 is always European. As for calendar, it's even worse - 9 out of 13 are in Europe. And only European Makes in WRC and SWRC (leading classes).

And two absolute "World" jokes - WTCC and FIA GT1.
WTCC. Well, teams are based in Europe (except one, that usually in the second half of the grid) not only in GB - it's already better than F1, but 8 races are held in Europe, 3 in Asia and only 1 in South America. Should I say that there're no not-European Manufacturers? Cruze is developed by RML. Even the engine is an absolute prototype designed and built by RML. Well, Chevy is world-wide known and based everywhere, but you can't put a World title only because of they are in.

FIA GT1 - is a complete bedlam. 16 cars, all European based teams, 6 races out of 10 are held - where?

And reborn WEC after this looks more like a real World Championship. In per cents there're more non European events. There're front runner teams from America. There're manufacturers involved from America, Europe and Japan. Maybe non-European involvement is not so strong, but it's better than in all other "world" champs. Really hope, ACO and FIA will make it even better.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by helgi

I always was wondering why Europeans like to bring a "World" status to a European champs.

The best example is F1. OK, there're drivers from all over the world (most are Europeans). But in other terms it's a sort of Formula Aurora. 8 out of 12 teams are based in Great Britain! No teams or manufacturers from America or Asia. And 8 races in Europe + 7 races in Asia. It's an Eurasian champ, not a World one. It could be a World champ in Middle Ages. Or they should better return it's original name - World Champ for drivers.

WRC. In tearms of teams it's a little bit better. There're 3 teams from America. But they can not finish on the podium because top-5 is always European. As for calendar, it's even worse - 9 out of 13 are in Europe. And only European Makes in WRC and SWRC (leading classes).

And two absolute "World" jokes - WTCC and FIA GT1.
WTCC. Well, teams are based in Europe (except one, that usually in the second half of the grid) not only in GB - it's already better than F1, but 8 races are held in Europe, 3 in Asia and only 1 in South America. Should I say that there're no not-European Manufacturer? Well, Chevy is world-wide known and based everywhere, but you can't put a World title only because of they are in.

FIA GT1 - is a complete bedlam. 16 cars, all European based teams, 6 races out of 10 are held - where?

And reborn WEC after this looks more like a real World Championship. In per cents there're more non European events. There're front runner teams from America. There're manufacturers involved from America, Europe and Japan. Maybe non-European involvement is not so strong, but it's better than in all other "world" champs. Really hope, ACO and FIA will make it even better.

who cares how many races are heald where, and how many teams are european not european.

btw for most of the things you pointed out, there is a simple explenation, the europeans like to race, and watch races. its not like the championships are closed for outside competitors.

Since basicly you have only 1 continent and 2 countries in the car industry, Europe, US and japan. and 90% of the sports cars are produced in europe, it is logical to asume they would have most to gain from racing. and with the economy being what it is, japan preaty much folded their racing eforts after the stock crash, and US manufacturers think localy, and since stock cars racing is far more popular in US...

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by helgi

I always was wondering why Europeans like to bring a "World" status to a European champs.

The best example is F1. OK, there're drivers from all over the world (most are Europeans). But in other terms it's a sort of Formula Aurora. 8 out of 12 teams are based in Great Britain! No teams or manufacturers from America or Asia. And 8 races in Europe + 7 races in Asia. It's an Eurasian champ, not a World one. It could be a World champ in Middle Ages. Or they should better return it's original name - World Champ for drivers.

WRC. In tearms of teams it's a little bit better. There're 3 teams from America. But they can not finish on the podium because top-5 is always European. As for calendar, it's even worse - 9 out of 13 are in Europe. And only European Makes in WRC and SWRC (leading classes).

And two absolute "World" jokes - WTCC and FIA GT1.
WTCC. Well, teams are based in Europe (except one, that usually in the second half of the grid) not only in GB - it's already better than F1, but 8 races are held in Europe, 3 in Asia and only 1 in South America. Should I say that there're no not-European Manufacturers? Cruze is developed by RML. Even the engine is an absolute prototype designed and built by RML. Well, Chevy is world-wide known and based everywhere, but you can't put a World title only because of they are in.

FIA GT1 - is a complete bedlam. 16 cars, all European based teams, 6 races out of 10 are held - where?

And reborn WEC after this looks more like a real World Championship. In per cents there're more non European events. There're front runner teams from America. There're manufacturers involved from America, Europe and Japan. Maybe non-European involvement is not so strong, but it's better than in all other "world" champs. Really hope, ACO and FIA will make it even better.

Teams will base themselves where it is most appropriate for them. But there is nothing stopping them from running a team based on a different continent.

But what is wrong with Europe having a large portion of a World Championship if that is where a large proportion of the action and fan bases are?

F1 has proven that you can take your product to new places and find half the grandstands are empty. That includes European circuits such as Istanbul as well. Is it any wonder that championship organisers then settle for the better known, 'safer' destinations?

[Danny_GT2]

The way I see it, this series will be either a great success or a complete catastrophe! Gonna wait till 2012 to see how things go!

[JAG]

The fortunes of the WEC and Le Mans will be interwound.

In previous years Le Mans could stand-alone, after the '99 peak manufacturers struggled to justify huge budgets for a single race, it's taken another decade for things to shake-out.

[NaBUru38]

Helgi's question is "why Europeans like to bring a "World" status to a European champs." Opinions like "90% of the sports cars are produced in europe, it is logical to asume they would have most to gain from racing" and "Is it any wonder that championship organisers then settle for the better known, 'safer' destinations?" don't answer that. The Intercontinental Rally Challenge has all of its races in Europe, yet Eurosport would never rename it "European Rally Challenge". Moreover, instead of taking over the European Rally Championship, they created a new one with a pompous name. I share Helgi's question - why don't Europeans get satisfed with European championships, when teams are reluctant to fly to other continents?

[AGD]

Americans like to throw around the "world" tag uselessly in sports as well. The World Series? Get real. 29 United States cities and Toronto does not represent the world of baseball. The NBA World Championship? Ha. Again, the United States plus Toronto does not represent the world of basketball.

It is a bit odd and potentially confusing that we will have a Le Mans Series and American Le Mans Series whose calendars do not include Le Mans, but the World Endurance Championship does include Le Mans.

[AGD]

This article by AutoWeek's Rick Dole indicates that Petit Le Mans is probably on the WEC chopping block:

Among the larger questions to be answered, or perhaps more appropriately, hammered out, is what is the 2012 schedule? If it is only seven races, many expect one of the North American Intercontinental Le Mans Cup rounds--most likely Petit Le Mans at Road Atlanta--to be dropped.

Here's an interesting little quote from the same article:

An hour later, the team principal of a major GT-class, factory-backed organization said, "Why does the ACO want to jump into bed with the FIA?"

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110607/ALMS/110609888

[deggis]

From that link:

"The regulations for the 2014 season will demand teams to have some sort of alternative energy system to supplement the internal-combustion powerplant."

Huh? Is this something new?

[JAG]

There are ACO LMP and GT working groups for future regs, as mentioned earlier, the talk is of reducing P1 minimum weight and having a fuel/energy formula.

Regarding TV rights, they go to the promoter, the ACO signed a three year Eurosport deal last month.

[Sellysell]

Do not know if it has been said already, but last year there was all this talk about chopping petit, but it never was.

I also do not no if this has been said either, but would if they are looking at racing at the circuit of the americas, f1 will race there june of next year, its possibly to race there oct.

[Pandamasque]

While we are on this 'world' topic, just for the fun of it, may I mention the 'Porsche Carrera World Cup' (one make, one race cup!) held at the Nurburgring this year?

Originally Posted by deggis

From that link:

"The regulations for the 2014 season will demand teams to have some sort of alternative energy system to supplement the internal-combustion powerplant."

Sounds very F1-like. I would be more logical to reduce the minimum weight to the point that hybrid (especially battery equipped) cars wouldn't be able match it. That would create more or less a real world challenge to the designers, instead of handing them a free power advantage.

[deggis]

About future regs, remember this? http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjuly10.html (go to 7.19.10) I hope the main idea (energy limit) is still alive... altough compulsory (unless it is just bad wording on that article) hybrid sounds a bit contradictory.