LMS Rnd 2: Valencia 4-6 May 2007

[The359]

I think Interlagos is fairly small in comparison to the Nurburgring, Spa, and Silverstone.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by The359

I think Interlagos is fairly small in comparison to the Nurburgring, Spa, and Silverstone.

Interlagos (4.309km) is just slightly larger than Valencia (4.005km).

L.P.

[The359]

Yeah, I figured it was longer then Valencia, but still shorter then the rest. However I think Interlagos is a much faster track then Valencia.

[gwyllion]

DSC has some nice post race interviews: http://www.dailysportscar.com/subscr...a_postrace.htm

As you can imagine the Rollcentre boys are not happy with the dirty move Mucke did on Barbosa.

[dj4monie]

Congrats to Oreca for serving notice...

Hugh said balance was perfect all day, something that car has been missed from when other teams have ran it.

I am SO looking forward to Le Mans, I might even be on site - Have Passport will travel...

[canam]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

As you can imagine the Rollcentre boys are not happy with the dirty move Mucke did on Barbosa.

The move was hard and potentially dangerous and should not be seen as the norm. In racing terms, Mucke made one move to block and another move to take the right line into the corner. He did not weave all over the track. It was a hard move but Barbosa knows it would not be easy and he would have to take a risk. Mucke also remembers being hit by Gounon doing a kamikaze move into turn one at Monza. Charouz just got on with it then.

No one is perfect. Barbosa and Short have not been shy of attracting a bit of controversy from other drivers in the past. Just get on with it and stop complaining. The supension broke anyway (and it wasn't from that 'move'). They would not have taken a podium spot. Good final minutes though.

Gounon does this stuff all the time. When is he going to be punished? Even the commentators now indicate that a clean pass is not a typical Gounon move.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Looks like both Spykers are DNF at the same time

According to http://www.planetlemans.com/cmsv2/in...k=view&id=2648 the engine broke on the factory Spyker. I don't think it is the first time that this happens.

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by The359

Yeah, I figured it was longer then Valencia, but still shorter then the rest. However I think Interlagos is a much faster track then Valencia.

Yep. Couple of good long straights with clear overtaking points.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by canam

No one is perfect. Barbosa and Short have not been shy of attracting a bit of controversy from other drivers in the past. Just get on with it and stop complaining.

Well said ..... accidents do happen . It almost seems that when an accident happens , Mr.Short it all to fast to accuse the driver of being intensionally dangerous !!!

Its wearing thin in my book anyway ................

Lets just hope that Rollcentre dont make a mistake on the track , ever , cuz their comments might open up a large can of woopass , on themselves !!!

[Fogelhund]

nm

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Well said ..... accidents do happen . It almost seems that when an accident happens , Mr.Short it all to fast to accuse the driver of being intensionally dangerous !!!

Martin suggested that Mucke did a similar nasty move on Dumas.

I told him I was disgusted with his driving, as he exited the podium. The TV didn’t show the two incidents he had with Dumas, in the same place as the one with Joao, where he pushed Dumas onto the grass, in a carbon copy precursor to the move on Joao, at 290 kph.

source: http://www.dailysportscar.com/subscr...a_postrace.htm

This is confirmed in an interview EI had with Dumas:

Après m'être dédoublé par rapport Ã* la Peugeot, je me suis retrouvé en bagarre avec la Lola Charouz. Je crois que je n’ai jamais vu ça : il m’a poussé trois fois dans l’herbe en bout de ligne droite Ã* très haute vitesse. Finalement, il m’a doublé en poussant le sabot arrière qui a ensuite frotté sur le pneu et déclenché une crevaison.

source: http://www.endurance-info.com/article.php?sid=3587

So Mucke pushed Dumas 3 times into the grass at the end of the straight. Latter he did the same with Barbosa. I think this counts as serious reckless driving.

[Fieldgate]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Well said ..... accidents do happen . It almost seems that when an accident happens , Mr.Short it all to fast to accuse the driver of being intensionally dangerous !!!

Its wearing thin in my book anyway ................

Lets just hope that Rollcentre dont make a mistake on the track , ever , cuz their comments might open up a large can of woopass , on themselves !!!

Were you even there ?
Did you actually witness the same move by Mucke on the front straight twice with Dumas previously ?
Potentially, all 3 of those could have been massive, life-impacting accidents.
This ignores the odd 'bumps' Mr M. inflicted on other parts of the track (amply viewable from the pit grandstand).

Had it been an ALMS race, they would have probably received a 20 minute stop-go for the second Dumas incident, let alone any others.

Your comments are irrelevent, unwelcome and frankly uninformed

[cptkablamo]

So, where abouts did you see the incident from Fieldgate...was it as bad as people said it was???

[gwyllion]

Just look at Dumas comment.

Je crois que je n’ai jamais vu ça : il m’a poussé trois fois dans l’herbe en bout de ligne droite Ã* très haute vitesse.

A quick translation

I think I have never seen this: he pushed me three times in the grass at the end of the straight line at very high speed.

[Rollcentre]

I was on the pitwall, watching the whole race, and the tv missed Dumas on the grass at 290 kph, pushed there by the mad Mucke. I was so gobsmacked that i considered going to the Clerk of the Course myself to complain, but the action was too hot with Joao about to have to go through the same trial by assault to get pass Mucke himself. Fortunately, under pressure he went wide, and Joao went through. In the meantime the officials had not seen the Dumas problem (Dumas eventually was punctured by Mucke) and so after Joao was pushed wide by the Chad Panoz and got onto the marbles, and gravel, he had to get pass Mucke again, who again performed exactly the same stunt, though Joao didnt have to go as wide as Dumas did (!).

This DTM style driving has no place in this racing, and Mucke pulled the same stunt on Bouillon at Monza, breaking his own suspension. He was warned of his driving standards yesterday morning by the officials, and if they had seen what we had seen, then instead of getting a driving being observed flag after the incident with my car, I am sure he would have been visiting the pit lane for a chat.

We lost the petrol race ultimately because the suspension broke cruelly, but I was bloody annoyed at what I had seen, putting my car and my driver at risk.

But of course those of you who were not there, and watched the whole race on an internet timing screen are entitled to your opinions, educated as they are.

: )

Martin.

[Mike_Wooshy]

I watched the last hour of the race or so on motors and I seen mucke push shortie's pessca at the end of the straight which I thought was disgusting in this type of racing..... belongs in DTM and Nascar.

[JAG]

DTM just happens to be some of the best racing in the world.

I found it strange how the commentators fround upon th Peugeots racing hard against themsleves, thats why we watch the sport.

You see this kind of thing week in week out in the ALMS, if the LMS pack closes up and these close battles are what we have in store, so be it.

No one wishes to see dangerous driving, but there's a fine line.

[Mike_Wooshy]

I don't think anyone is denying DTM doesn't produce good racing, It does produce good racing. As you said there is a fine line an many of us believe mucke went over that line yesterday. Now I'm not saying racing should be sanitised, contact does happen. Especially in close fought battles, but when a car is clearly faster than you its a bit much to almost run it off the circuit. I'm not saying Mucke is a bad driver or anything, if anything he showed his passion to finish as best as he could, every driver should have this "flare".

[JAG]

Mucke did a Schumacher and got away with it, time to let it go, otherwise, like Pescarolo, you could be viewed as a bad loser.

[Rollcentre]

More ill informed comments. Go watch DTM or Nascar then. This was nothing to do with that as a form of entertainment. It was down right bloody dangerous in any racing. Gawd, I despair sometimes of internet armchair pundits.

You did not see the Dumas incidents. You are not aware. Anyway, my last on this subject as a potentially sore loser.....what a load of tosh. Enjoy.

[Bernard Bram]

Maybe somebody can upload a video of the incident?

[JAG]

We see this kind of thing every week, it was wrong, move on.

The best drivers in the world have done the odd wild move.

Mucke did a double block on Barbosa, Barbosa kept his foot in rather than backing off, and was pushed onto the grass

[Fieldgate]

Top of the pit-stand above the R'centre pit - so right in front of me. I've seen that kind of manouvre on TV before historically, but in real life it actually makes you gasp out loud. I can grasp the "one movement direction only" rule; but not to the point of forcing your fellow competitor on to the grass. To keep repeating it and move multiple directions is frankly idiotic.

Hopefully we will see the in-car footage on YouTube soon !

[Erki]

I guess I'm in a minority(getting used to it already) - I don't find DTM particularly exciting racing series. I don't know why, but it just doesn't look all that exciting. Some years ago it did, but not anymore, in fact I didn't even watch the whole race...

I hope we can see some video of what happened, until that time I won't draw any conclusion, but it sure sounds dodgy.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Fieldgate

Were you even there ?
Did you actually witness the same move by Mucke on the front straight twice with Dumas previously ?
Potentially, all 3 of those could have been massive, life-impacting accidents.
This ignores the odd 'bumps' Mr M. inflicted on other parts of the track (amply viewable from the pit grandstand).

Had it been an ALMS race, they would have probably received a 20 minute stop-go for the second Dumas incident, let alone any others.

Your comments are irrelevent, unwelcome and frankly uninformed

No . i wasnt there and I didnt even see it on TV . But from reading comments and reports on forums , it seems that Mr.Short seems to think that Mücke was doing this intentionally . I feel that this is far from the truth as no one in their right mind would put another driver at risk on purpose ..... or you seem to think that Mücke is intentionally trying to put someone off the track ?

Fine , lets hang him then , but you better be sure he did it on purpose , or was it a mistake in his style of driving ?

And my comment about Rollcentre being carefull not to do the same to others still stands . Everyone can make a mistake , or ?

Did you witness the move on Dumas twice , and all his other "bumps" then ?