LMS Rnd 2: Valencia 4-6 May 2007

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Rollcentre

I was on the pitwall, watching the whole race, and the tv missed Dumas on the grass at 290 kph, pushed there by the mad Mucke. I was so gobsmacked that i considered going to the Clerk of the Course myself to complain, but the action was too hot with Joao about to have to go through the same trial by assault to get pass Mucke himself. Fortunately, under pressure he went wide, and Joao went through. In the meantime the officials had not seen the Dumas problem (Dumas eventually was punctured by Mucke) and so after Joao was pushed wide by the Chad Panoz and got onto the marbles, and gravel, he had to get pass Mucke again, who again performed exactly the same stunt, though Joao didnt have to go as wide as Dumas did (!).

This DTM style driving has no place in this racing, and Mucke pulled the same stunt on Bouillon at Monza, breaking his own suspension. He was warned of his driving standards yesterday morning by the officials, and if they had seen what we had seen, then instead of getting a driving being observed flag after the incident with my car, I am sure he would have been visiting the pit lane for a chat.

We lost the petrol race ultimately because the suspension broke cruelly, but I was bloody annoyed at what I had seen, putting my car and my driver at risk.

But of course those of you who were not there, and watched the whole race on an internet timing screen are entitled to your opinions, educated as they are.

: )

Martin.

Martin ..... do you think that Mücke did intentionally put your car off the track and Dumas too ?

I find it hard to believe that a driver would do something like that . If so , he shouldnt really be out there .

Do you honestly think he is that bad and do you honestly think he would do somethink like that , with intent to damage ?

Informed opinion ..... i didnt even see the race ..... Im not trying to wind you up , i just find it hard to believe that a driver would do that with intent .

[Dragaan]

I only watched the TV coverage, but it was very scary to watch. I am suprised by comments that Mucke went to block and then went to get the line into the corner. His movements were VERY agressive and there was no gentle moving to the outside about it. It was without doubt a deliberate swerve. Moving across once is understandable, but so close to the corner, there was no way he could honestly think he could get back across safely. He chose his line into the corner and should have stuck with it.

Bare in mind that Martin has already commented that Mucke had already been spoken to officially about his driving and warned. That already gives a basis for understanding the truth behind the incident. A number of independant people not only saw the move, but those on the Dumas car.

Regarding comments about Rollcentre or Pescarolo being sore loosers, I think you miss the point. They never complained that they could have won the races or even just done better. To quote Martin: 'I was bloody annoyed at what I had seen, putting my car and my driver at risk.' This sport is dangerous anyway. But when someones actions threaten the life of another driver, then THAT is grounds for complaining. Badger, I don't think Muckes intention was to damage intentionally, but it was a foolish, reckless and dangerous move. Even then, if he had done it once then that would be forgivable, but to repeatedly do the same thing? Thats not on. Thats deliberate dangerous driving. However, I would strongly advise you to at least watch the actual events before being so aggressively vocal about them in future please.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Martin ..... do you think that Mücke did intentionally put your car off the track and Dumas too ?

I find it hard to believe that a driver would do something like that . If so , he shouldnt really be out there .

Do you honestly think he is that bad and do you honestly think he would do somethink like that , with intent to damage ?

Informed opinion ..... i didnt even see the race ..... Im not trying to wind you up , i just find it hard to believe that a driver would do that with intent .

Martin has ABSOLUTELY every right to be as angry as he is. I've just reviewed the Motors TV coverage again and the move was 100% DELIBERATE, DISGRACEFUL, and, as Martin said, DANGEROUS. Add that move on Joao to the earlier moves on Romain and the stewards should most definitely have taken action against Mucke.

I am fully supportive of Martin's reaction and what he has had to say, we just don't need the likes of 'Mucky' in endurance racing!!!

[JAG]

It was the kind of move Schumacher would pull every other GP, I distincly remember him and Brundle having a similar dice at Montreal in Group C.

Whether it's acceptable is for you to decide, it was naughty, I'm not sure it was deliberatly dangerous.

[henk4]

I was there and Martin is fully right. Mucke intentionally blocked Barbosa on the straight, by going left, while the ideal line is to the rigght side of the track approaching tunr 1 (a almost 90 degree lefthander). We also have a shot where Mucke is trying to push off Dumas, who was many laps behind and could not do any harm to Mucke's position. Mucke could have let him pass without any problem, but choose to race him without any reason and with foul methods....

[The Badger]

Fair enough ..... i stand corrected .

I just find it hard to understand that this was done with intention , is all .

No more comments from me about this then , as I didnt see it .

[henk4]

Originally Posted by JAG

It was the kind of move Schumacher would pull every other GP, I distincly remember him and Brundle having a similar dice at Montreal in Group C.

Whether it's acceptable is for you to decide, it was naughty, I'm not sure it was deliberatly dangerous.

It was worse than a Schumacher move, Mucke moved sideways while Barbosa was driving beside him.....Schumacher made his moves mostly before people got a chance to get beside him...
(Of course Mucke being a German the reference to Schumacher is easily made, but this was worse...)

[Mirage M6]

I was there but unfortunately I didn’t see the accident, and when I asked about that to my friends and some spectators, they weren’t agree between them; Some of them said that Mücke did intentionally, but others said was only a race incident.

But I saw two of the ‘incidents’ between Dumas and Mücke; maybe you know I’m a Pescarolo fan, but I think were deliberate (I’m not absolutely sure, of course). Mücke, as a driver, is very dangerous.

[brielga]

Gents, Muecke closed the door violently on Barbosa at full speed in the only "long" straight on the circuit. Joao left the slipstream and was about to dive for the inside line when Stefan moved left in a move that could have caused a massive accident, period. Martin is (luckily) an emotional and passionate racer and I can understand his statement, it was dangerous indeed (just watch the replay from the camera from turn 1...) and it needs a strong message to avoid unnecessary future risks. Just my 2 cents having been there and seen it from the stands outside the media centre.

BTW we caught the picture of Dumas's puncture at www.planetlemans.com in our last hour update

[henk4]

Originally Posted by brielga

Gents, Muecke closed the door violently on Barbosa at full speed in the only "long" straight on the circuit. Joao left the slipstream and was about to dive for the inside line when Stefan moved left in a move that could have caused a massive accident, period. Martin is (luckily) an emotional and passionate racer and I can understand his statement, it was dangerous indeed (just watch the replay from the camera from turn 1...) and it needs a strong message to avoid unnecessary future risks. Just my 2 cents having been there and seen it from the stands outside the media centre.

worth 5 cents....

[WouterM]

I missed the Mucke versus Barbosa incidents, but I did see the Dumas incident in the flesh. That was completely avoidable as Mucke had no interest in keeping the Pesca behind him.

Anyways here is our report:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame...em.php&rid=143

A quick link to Dumas vs Mucke:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/gallery.php?num=7791

[chocmonster7]

Originally Posted by Rollcentre

More ill informed comments. Go watch DTM or Nascar then. This was nothing to do with that as a form of entertainment. It was down right bloody dangerous in any racing. Gawd, I despair sometimes of internet armchair pundits.

I'm not going to get involved in the did he/didn't he agrument which has developed around Mr Mucke.

I can understand how annoyed you as a team owner & driver are but it might be worth keeping in mind that those "armchair pundits" who you are having a go at are also something that sportscar racing desperately needs - namely enthusiastic fans & spectators.

From what I've seen the Rollcentre team is one of the best supported amoungst those fans (the spirit of pulling for the underdog maybe?) and I'd hate to see that affected by a few heated forum posts.

Anyway, I've had my say, Good Luck for the rest of the season.

[Rollcentre]

I was referring to a certain pair of armchair enthusiasts. Apologies for not making it obvious who they were. There are informed and intellectual comments on these sites, and then there are those who seem to have nothing better to do than give opinions that are ill informed and uneducated.

When somebody starts expressing opinions about a serious incident without having witnessed it.... well it beggars belief.

"Yeah, that 9/11 stuff, overated.....but I never saw it.....are we sure they meant to fly those planes into the twin towers?? Get over it and move on , ...". (No offence intended in using this awkward analogy)

Thanks for the comments about emotional and passionate. Yes, I am. Its a desperate and dangerous failing at times. But what the hell.

Mucke did not intend to kill anybody. He just intended to make sure that if anybody wanted to overtake, they knew they were going to have to take their destiny in their hands to do it, and at beyond the extreme and visible risk. And YES. His moves were very deliberate. My in car video shows them all.

So much for my last post......

[JAG]

The world isn't against Rollcentre, they get more support than any other team.

Mucke was out of order, everyone gasped and took noticed when they saw his move, but we've seen it all before, Sebring this season comes to mind.

In both instances the drivers weren't punished, just like Schumacher and co weren't punished for their risky moves in years gone by, maybe that tells us something.

Unacceptable, undesirable, but part of racing when drivers get hot headed.

[Purist]

Drivers can get hot-headed, but as someone like McNish has shown, some handle it MUCH better than others. And no, it should NOT be acceptable conduct. If Mucke pulled a stunt in Blanchimont, there might well be at least one driver needing to be airlifted from the track. From what you all have said about the incidents, I REALLY hope Mucke isn't behind the wheel at tracks like Spa or Interlagos.

[Marcel ten Caat]

Coincidence or not... 7 out of 8 drivers from the top 3 cars were asked a question during the press conference. Mücke was the only one that was not asked a thing during the official conference. (but was when leaving the room)

[Matra-simca]

I think Martin Short is more than justifiably irked, lest we forget a hot-headed Frenchman punted him out at Le Mans a few years that ultimately led to rear suspension failure at the daunting Porsche Curves. Martin was most fortunate not to have suffered life-threatning injuries.

[sportscanyltics]

LMS ratings updated through the results of Valencia:

http://sportscaranalytics.wordpress.com/

Interesting trends setting up for the 2007 season... with Monza and Valencia being such unique events in comparison to what we expect to see the rest of the season, it's hard to determine just how representative the first two rounds have been of who the top performers are.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by sportscanyltics

LMS ratings updated through the results of Valencia:

http://sportscaranalytics.wordpress.com/

Interesting trends setting up for the 2007 season... with Monza and Valencia being such unique events in comparison to what we expect to see the rest of the season, it's hard to determine just how representative the first two rounds have been of who the top performers are.

I think for LMP1 the situation is very clear who the top performers are......

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Rollcentre

Mucke did not intend to kill anybody. He just intended to make sure that if anybody wanted to overtake, they knew they were going to have to take their destiny in their hands to do it, and at beyond the extreme and visible risk. And YES. His moves were very deliberate. My in car video shows them all.

something that could be handed over to the stewarts of the race???

[canam]

Originally Posted by henk4

I think for LMP1 the situation is very clear who the top performers are......

The analytics results are precisely what one would expect (as they appear to be heavily related to results and time on the track); however, I think many teams did better than the Pugs in terms of TV time. The battles through the field provided better entertainment for the greater part of the race.

[Tom908V12]

Fabulous pics and report of Valencia on http://www.ultimatecarpage.com !!


Other nice pics on http://www.motorsport.com/photos/sel...encia/Thursday

[henk4]

Originally Posted by canam

The analytics results are precisely what one would expect (as they appear to be heavily related to results and time on the track); however, I think many teams did better than the Pugs in terms of TV time. The battles through the field provided better entertainment for the greater part of the race.

I was at the race, so i am less interested in TV time....but your question was who are the top performers. I would interpret that as a being the winners, not the teams that gets most of the TV coverage....

[Bramzel]

Was there any complaint filed against Mucke after the race?

[gwyllion]

In a interview with EI Henri Pescarolo is also complaining about the driving style of Mucke:

Derrière, c’est en revanche une grosse bagarre. A ce titre, on peut regretter que le directeur de course n’ait pris aucune décision suite aux manœuvres d’un des pilotes de la Lola Charouz. Il élimine deux voitures, sans compter les risques qu’il a fait prendre aux pilotes.

Quick translation:

Behind, on the other hand there was a big fight. For this reason, one must regret that the race director did not make any decision following the manouvres of one of the pilots of Lola Charouz. He eliminates two cars, without counting the risks which he made take to the pilots.

source: http://www.endurance-info.com/article.php?sid=3589