Other Factory Diesels??

Garrett · 11 Apr 2006, 22:44 (Ref:1579036)

Now that Audi has raced and proven that diesels can win endurance races and with the news that Peugeot will enter a diesel LMP1 for 2007, are there any other factory teams that could have interest to produce a diesel lmp1? I would figure Mercedes could build and race a diesel lmp1 for LM due to their their knowledge of diesel engines from their line of diesel luxary cars. Ford has diesel powered vehicles also (mainly trucks). Will there be any other manufactures to build factory diesel LMP1s for LM to compete against Audi and Peugeot in the future?

**Adam43** · 11 Apr 2006, 22:55 (Ref:1579045)

First we have to wonder if there are more factory cars then whether they will be diesels. It is also possible that the rules may not mean that diesels are as attractive as they are now (as discussed elsewhere in this sub-forum).

We could well see people following suit, but I suspect that we won't in the next two to three years. Who are the likely manufacturers? Well with it being diesel that makes us think European (or with a european market) - but that could change too.

Mercedes? I don't think they are looking to get back into sportscar. They have F1 and Audi and those together pretty much covers there basis. you culd say similar things about BMW (F1 and WTCC). One of the japanese manufacturers may, eventually, but I don't think any have any plans for a diesel. Although they are looking at ALMS as the New ALMS manufacturer thread is looking at.

Do Porsche have LMP1 plans? but with diesel?

I can't really think of anyone right now, but that doesn't mean that there won't be.

Fogelhund · 12 Apr 2006, 02:49 (Ref:1579122)

What about non-factory diesels?

Garrett · 12 Apr 2006, 03:57 (Ref:1579132)

That would be really nice to see a Porsche LMP1 at Le Mans in the near future! Though, Porsche do not have a diesel to through in the back of a P1 car... would a gas engine be fast enough to compete against the R10???(though, you never know... maybe Porsche is secretively working on a diesel... Audi didn't have a diesel either until now)

Maybe Porsche is working on making the stillborn LMP2000 into a P1 with the Carrera GT V10 to power it???

Any thoughts?

Since the intoduction of diesels in P1, will gas engines still be competitive?

Naruto · 12 Apr 2006, 14:11 (Ref:1579481)

maybe

JAG · 12 Apr 2006, 17:10 (Ref:1579604)

The new ACO black boxes aim to equalise differing engine configerations.

Diesels have an advantage this year, but next year they are likely to be on equal terms, power wise, with petrol cars.

I reckon we'll see one more manufactuer compete with a diesel, in addition to Audi and Peugeot, but after that who knows.

Maybe hybrids are the future, Honda would seem a prime candidate.

**FIRE** · 12 Apr 2006, 18:17 (Ref:1579650)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

What about non-factory diesels?

Ricardo-Judd

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/ricardojuddv10.html
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...hlight=Ricardo

gwyllion · 12 Apr 2006, 19:47 (Ref:1579710)

groupBio aka Taurus

MikeHoyer · 13 Apr 2006, 00:02 (Ref:1579936)

Seen that testing twice, and didn't do much either time...

GT-Eins · 13 Apr 2006, 02:34 (Ref:1580008)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett

That would be really nice to see a Porsche LMP1 at Le Mans in the near future! Though, Porsche do not have a diesel to through in the back of a P1 car... would a gas engine be fast enough to compete against the R10???(though, you never know... maybe Porsche is secretively working on a diesel... Audi didn't have a diesel either until now)

Maybe Porsche is working on making the stillborn LMP2000 into a P1 with the Carrera GT V10 to power it???

Any thoughts?

Since the intoduction of diesels in P1, will gas engines still be competitive?

Porsche has neither diesel nor gas-engines in their programme. They yet ruled out other powerplants than their conventional ones.
The P1 will be derived from their P2-Chassis. The 2000-car was an exercise from the past which would not provide a basis for a competetive chassis today. According to some Porsche-sources I spoke it is actually collecting dust in the basement of their factory-museum.
Back to the main topic - you would have to see on the market which manufacturers have a large market-share in Diesel-engines to speculate over possible entries.
VAG & PSA are technology-leaders in that field , which explains the engagement of Audi & Peugeot.
DC have some history in that, but are currently not focussed on sportscars
BMW neither, although they build some nice performing diesel engines
GM? Ford? - have diesel engines but not high-performance (for GM/opel low fuel consumption is main focus)
Renault? Have some own technology but are not market leaders with that
Honda? maybe an option for the future
Toyota? - more focussed on hybrid-technology (which I would consider interesting to be realised in a sportscar)

Did I miss some major diesel-manufacturers?

gwyllion · 13 Apr 2006, 07:10 (Ref:1580099)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT-Eins

Did I miss some major diesel-manufacturers?

Alfa, but they are focused on WTCC.

Garrett · 13 Apr 2006, 15:14 (Ref:1580465)

GT-Eins, i was joking about Porsche using the old LMP2000 for a P1...

. Will Porsche make the move up to P1? What engine do you think they would use??? V10, V8(Rs Spyder V8), or the proven turbo flat 6???

GT-Eins · 13 Apr 2006, 18:34 (Ref:1580605)

There were some recent speculations in british Autoweek magazin in January which were supposed to be sourced from people involved in the factory-programme. According to that Porsche may decide to upgrade to LMP1 if the LMP2-programme would be a success & leave LMP2 for interested privatiers.
Only speculation so far...

As for the engine I only can speculate myself that a flat six would require a fairly different installation and suspension than a V8 - so the twin-turbo-option is maybe easier to realise.

ger80 · 30 Apr 2006, 14:33 (Ref:1598158)

maybe not the best thread to post, but I didnt know any better.
the paddock writes about a WR LMP2 Diesel for 2008. LMP2 and diesel? regulation modifications needed for that project, or not?
http://www.the-paddock.net/index.php...d75c6d0698503e

gucom · 30 Apr 2006, 16:12 (Ref:1598200)

about porsche moving to LMP1, i thought i had read porsche and audi have agreed not to compete directly? it was some time around the official presenting of the RS spyder that i read this...

JAG · 30 Apr 2006, 21:16 (Ref:1598319)

It was a rumour.

If there was any substance to it I'm guessing Audi are established enough to positively welcome as much competition as possible these days.

JAG · 30 Apr 2006, 21:18 (Ref:1598321)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ger80

maybe not the best thread to post, but I didnt know any better.
the paddock writes about a WR LMP2 Diesel for 2008. LMP2 and diesel? regulation modifications needed for that project, or not?
http://www.the-paddock.net/index.php...d75c6d0698503e

Lightweigh P2 with diesel power, seems a frugal and potent combination.

Wonder if the Acura P1 will be hybrid of some sort, seeing as one of the justifications for entry is the technical freedoms in the engine department.

**Bentley03** · 1 May 2006, 08:28 (Ref:1598577)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Lightweigh P2 with diesel power, seems a frugal and potent combination.

I thought diesel power was not a permitted option under current LMP2 regulations. I'm sure this was a subject which we discussed in reference to Porsche's decision to go LMP2.

But perhaps I'm wrong (won't be the first time!

)?

**Bentley03** · 1 May 2006, 08:54 (Ref:1598590)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley03

I thought diesel power was not a permitted option under current LMP2 regulations. I'm sure this was a subject which we discussed in reference to Porsche's decision to go LMP2.

But perhaps I'm wrong (won't be the first time!

)?

Just had a quick look at the regs and answered my own question (and that of ger80).

Click here for the LMP1 and LMP2 regs and look at the table in Article 5.1. It states under LMP2 that diesel engines are 'forbidden', so there must be some new regs on the way to accommodate them.

ger80 · 1 May 2006, 12:31 (Ref:1598720)

well, WR is a french team. not the first time that the french teams had "other" regs

think ACO will change after LeMans06 together with the smaller restrictor for LMP1 diesels

JAG · 1 May 2006, 14:02 (Ref:1598760)

I'd expect the ACO to welcome any engine in P1 and P2.

It's a new field, so until the manufactuers put their proposals to the ACO there's not much the ACO can put in their regs.

As for Porsches reasons for going to P2, I'm not sure. There were claims that petrol could not compete with diesel, but then again the ACO have already stated all engine types will be able to compete equally. There are also well known plans for Porsche to go P1 with a turbo version of the current V8. Forget the conspiracy stories, maybe they are simply learning in P2 with a customer car before stepping up, as Acura will do.

I expect diesel restrictors to be moved more in line with petrol over the winter as it seems diesel development is more advanced than the ACO invisaged.

**FIRE** · 2 May 2006, 17:42 (Ref:1599499)

http://www.jcbdieselmax.com/download..._1032_c1ff.jpg

Quote:

JCB is aiming to set a new land speed record for diesel vehicles with a super sleek streamliner car to be driven by Wing Commander Andy Green, the fastest man on Earth. The record attempt will take place on the famous Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah during August 2006.

Powering the stunning, nine metre long JCB DIESELMAX car are two JCB444 diesel engines, developed to produce 750bhp each, five times the power needed to drive a JCB backhoe loader, and now the world’s most powerful diesel engine per litre.
...
Mentor to the project has been Richard Noble, the former land speed record holder, who encouraged the JCB team to aim for 300 mph; the existing record stands at 235.756mph.

Only 300 mph?

cptkablamo · 17 May 2006, 17:04 (Ref:1612724)

Found an article similar to this thread at
www.feedmesportscars.com

I can't direct link it but it is called 'The emergence of the new power' and can be found in the feature articles box

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