[Driver] Webber VS Vettel

[rocketracer]

well, it's certainly not the first time it's happened - i remember webber in a williams 05 (nurburg?) hunting down the first corner, going too deep and clobbering montoya's mclaren. dont remember if he got a penalty - he was out of the race anyway...

However we choose to dissect the scenario, there were 3 cars who all contributed to the accident. There were 3 cars all going into one space, heidfeld cut in, rubens was too deep to make the apex in a controlled manner (and slightly nudged from behind, but i doubt this would have avoided an accident anyway), and webber was unfortunately stuck in a crash sandwich... With the way the 3 of them went into the corner, it was always going to happen.

the only possible reason we can single out barrichello, was that with the speed he was carrying (contributed by a bump or not), he was going to hit whoever was at the apex of that corner at that time. In all likelihood, he was not going to pull up in time for the apex of the corner, unless the other drivers avoided him. Same as the Vettel incident. So the question is: should drivers be penalised when they're too hot into a corner and take out the driver on the outside?

to be consistent with the (over zealous) stewarding of the last few seasons, i would say yes. But in a broader motor racing sense, i would say both were merely racing incidents.

[Malfunction Junction]

At the first corner of the first race of any given year, strange things happen.

It wasn't that long ago Ralf Schumacher vaulted Barrichello at the same corner. Haven't seen another one of those in a while have we....

A bit of a shame, as it robbed everybody of the Webber/Vettel, Heidfeld/Kubica and Kovalainen/Hamilton squabbles.

Roll on round 2.

[Glen]

Blimey - the thread has gone mad.

Even though I'm very much a supporter of Webber I do think that weekend constitutes a slight win for Vettel, who did a fantastic job. Sort of! He did manage to go back to zero from hero status - pretty daft dragging the car around with wheels flailing around - dangerous too.

Bring on Malaysia - can't wait. The car is excellent and clearly has race pace. Hopefully the team have learned from this race, especially about tyre strategy.

[NAC]

I think we needed a poll on this. Is it to late??

[Rick]

I've just seen a great photo taken side on into the first corner - Almost a perfect staggered formation with Rubens completely on the grass (front wing at the back of Webbers front tyre), Webber edging onto the grass (wing alongside Heidfeld's head) and Heidfeld looking for the apex!

Here's what Nick said -

"Then in the braking zone for the first corner I felt safe because when I looked there was no car next to me. I was in the middle of the track but suddenly I got a big bang."

No where near the middle of the road - Webber probably could have used the grass to avoid him if there wasn't a Brawn already there.

[parkingjedi]

Originally Posted by deeks6

if Webber does beat Vettel

key word there and a very big one that: if.

I have a lot of confidence in Vettel and cant really see that if at all.
Vettel is a future World Champion.

[Burnsie]

Originally Posted by parkingjedi

key word there and a very big one that: if.

As a great man once said, "IF is F1 spelt backwards"

[chunterer]

After that prang on Sunday, added to the well documented novice mistakes in China 07 (and I think there was something else last season?) a thought occurred to me (yes, I know....) that Vettel might end up being the new 'Montoya' of F1.

Like Montoya, Vettel has a fantastic natural talent, incredibly fast, 'racey' and is particularly laid back about his driving and is a joy to watch behind the wheel. Now although Vettel is still pretty inexperienced is he starting to display a tendency towards the rash by getting involved in the sort of incidents that ultimately cost wins and possibly titles - something that many were critical of Montoya about?

That shunt could've easily have been avoided and in what is likely to be a mega close season, all those points lost will be more vital than ever before.

[Armco Bender]

So what do you all want,an F1 float parade or a bit of bumping and grinding?..

[Glen]

I do believe that Vettel is the real thing, and certainly in a different class to Montoya (who, incidentally, I thought was great and very exciting to watch, just not sufficiently professional for F1).

But I also think Webber has the same class!

[Splatz the Cow]

Just think Rubens had no business being where he was. A stupid move that he has made before in his career, but to his credit, he does it very rarely.

Regarding the Vettel/Webber showdown, I'll just take a big step back and say I was so pleased to see both cars fast through the whole weekend. Great performances by the whole team; and Vettel is every bit a class act based on his Albert Park performance.

2009 looks great for RBR.

[johnh875]

I would call the weekend a nil-all draw. They were so close on pace through qually (apart from a mistake by Webber on his last lap in Q3) that it doesn't matter. Webber paid the price for the poor qually by being in the wrong spot and taken out at the first corner. I'm not going to say the Kubica incident was all Vettel's fault (both drivers contributed or could have avoided it), and up til then he'd had a good race, but to argue the toss with a clearly faster car and 3 laps to go to the point where he was put out of the race wasn't smart. Whether it was his fault of Kubica's he still has no points (and a grid penalty I don't agree with).

Re the first corner incident I don't think there is much else to say it was a first corner incident - they were all at fault to some degree and likewise ought to smarten up a bit (aka control the red mist) to ensure they can compete in the rest of the race!

[Teretonga]

I think I'd pretty much agree with John.
Not all vettels fault. Kubicas response to the initial touch created 75-90% of the actual damage.

First corner was a racing incident. I had expected 6-8 cars to lose their noses so really it was a lot more mild than it could have been.
Launch control is a curse. Ban it and they will all have to drive off the line. It seems to malfaction every now and then and the results of the problems are so destructive...

10 place penalty is wrong for the circumstances of the incident IMHO

Webber and Vettel: better qualifying but it was very close and Vettel had a better race (till 3 laps from the end) than Webber who through no fault of his own had no real race.

[Wrex]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Launch control is a curse. Ban it and they will all have to drive off the line. It seems to malfaction every now and then and the results of the problems are so destructive...

Umm, I think LC has been gone a couple of years now

Vettel drove a great race after a brilliant qually. No conclusions yet, but SV got the edge due to Webbers rare qually blip.

[Teretonga]

By Launch control I am talking about any artifcial intelligence system that controls an aspect of the cars performamce, in this case the anti-stall system on the Brawn that caused the problem Barrichello had in Melbourne.

There have been a number of incidents at the start of GP's and A1 along with problems aftrer pit stops where various electronic systems have malfunctioned in a way thta created problems for drivers and/or their teams to their detriment and on occasions other competitors.

[Wrex]

Ahh, I see. When you said 'Launch Control', I thought you meant 'Launch Control'

[Glen]

I think you'd have very much more start-line chaos if the cars were less sophisticated - Melbourne was an example of what happens when a car doesn't get off the line as expected. If they had just a plain clutch and gas pedal there would be a hell of a lot more variation, ans incidents to go with it.

[Kempi]

Well, drivers in the 80s mostly managed quite well to start with just a stick shift and three pedals and no anti-stall or anything else. We don't really need that, it's just that the drivers have gotten used to it.

[champcarman]

From Webbers in car camera he appeared to be a bit hesitant approaching Turn One and may have partly contributed to the first corner incident. It appeared he may have neen able to go up the inside of the car in front of him but backed out of it and was then attacked by Rubens.After his first corner mishaps at Melbourne in the past one can hardly blame him for trying to be careful but in hindsight aggression may have been better.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Wrex

Ahh, I see. When you said 'Launch Control', I thought you meant 'Launch Control'

Ahn... I thought he was talking about "Launch control", is that correct ?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Ahn... I thought he was talking about "Launch control", is that correct ?

No I was talking about launch control....

[Bononi]

Ok. What about Webber vs Vettel ?

[mac]

Pretty even after Round 1 I would say...

[parkingjedi]

man this thread is becoming epic - its need a poll: a simple one.

Who will score more points in 2009 Vettel or Webber.

My money is where my mouth is: in the V.I.F.A - W.I.S.H camp ;-)

[Burnsie]

Webber beats Vettel in Malaysia FP1... by 0.044