[Official] Italian Grand Prix 2020: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 8

[Adam43]

I’m not sure Mercedes or Lewis are making excuses, not in a bad way anyway. They are saying how they saw it, or rather didn’t , but they are accepting of the error.

There is not much more to make of that. We don’t have to make out that the organizers messed up or that it is a really bad thing Mercedes have done or they are OTT with their excuses.

The organisers put the markers out by the usual place you know to look for track side information. On the outside of corners is normal. They highlighted these positions before the race. They are sensible places, unlike on the pit lane entry, which is too late.

Lewis missed them, which isn’t good, but understandable. The team missed two pieces of information. They had less time to react compared to others so also understandable, but not good. Ultimately it is the driver’s responsibility to adhere to on track instructions from marshals posts.

Neither of these things will prove there is something fundamentally wrong with someone else, or that we are so so clever for noticing.

But I am encouraged that we have a lot of users on here that have never made an excuse for anything they did slightly wrong

Now there was a quote somewhere which sums it up. Where was it, oh it is here:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Happens.

[S griffin]

It was a bad mistake and one that they should learn from. At least they can admit to it, no team is perfect

At the end of the day is a miscommunication that had severe consequences. Sometimes hindsight is a wonderful thing. Let’s remember this team often gets it right, so it’s a bit of a shock when they mess things up

It just shows how different fortunes can alter in an instance. It’s easy to be critical from the outside. But, hey at least it gave us a different result for once

[Anyopenroad]

The bias/filter thing has gone meta: we now have posters seeing every post through the filter of assuming other posters have a pro/anti-X filter .

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

The bias/filter thing has gone meta: we now have posters seeing every post through the filter of assuming other posters have a pro/anti-X filter .

Typical Verstappen fan

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

The bias/filter thing has gone meta: we now have posters seeing every post through the filter of assuming other posters have a pro/anti-X filter .

Seems to be the way of the world at the moment - everything is one extreme or the other, there doesn't seem to ba any middle ground.

[RWill2073]

The hamilton debate seems to be whether he handled it perfectly with class and grace, or whether he handled it with excuses initially then owned up to it.

Neither seems to be harsh to hamilton, yet still gets the hamilton defense team up in arms. Locations check out as usual

I cant believe the commentators missed a pretty cool story line: in a year when ferrari was miserable, and the Italian fans or "tifosi" or whatever had little to be happy about, their newly signed driver put on a show and finished second. That's pretty cool and would have been neat to see the fans cheering for him as one of their own during the podium celebration.

Awesome for gasly, he's really showing up albon now. But they shouldn't rush to put him back in red bull and throw him to the verstappen wolves.

Am I the only one that thought a double dnf was better for ferrari than finishing 12th and 13th? More embarrassing passing by at the back of the grid every lap, imo. This way they could always pull a hamilton (just kidding guys, settle down) and make excuses as if they could have been competitive if not for the dnf, haha.

I'm all for the reverse grid qualifying races with half points awarded. Sounds like a fun time.

[wnut]

Lewis' radio comms following his pit lane entry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMDAV7jX4Vg

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

The hamilton debate seems to be whether he handled it perfectly with class and grace, or whether he handled it with excuses initially then owned up to it.

Neither seems to be harsh to hamilton, yet still gets the hamilton defense team up in arms. Locations check out as usual

No, just struggling to see where he made an excuse, then owned up to it later?

Even in the audio above Lewis wasn't making an excuse. he said he didnt see a light on pit entry (because there wasnt one) and that he didnt see the lights on the outside of the corner because he was looking at the incident..

Location has nothing to do with it, people can support drivers from other countries.

Lewis defence team? ive not seen one, and just in case youre referring to me, then i suggest you check my other posts stating that Lewis made a mistake and deserved the penalty.

This has nothing to do with filters, bias, extreme opinions in one direction or the other etc etc etc....

People have made comments that he made excuses initially, said they were incredulous that they did, im just trying to understand at what point.....because so far i've not seen or heard any comments from Lewis to support that.

Anyway, said my bit. probably time to move on. I suspect Mercedes did that a few days ago already.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

No, just struggling to see where he made an excuse, then owned up to it later?

I freely admit I am not helping this topic die, but I am entirely gobsmacked here.

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Even in the audio above Lewis wasn't making an excuse. he said he didnt see a light on pit entry (because there wasnt one) and that he didnt see the lights on the outside of the corner because he was looking at the incident..

What you just typed above as quotes from Hamilton "are" the excuses you claim do not exist. Let me spell it out.

"Didn't see light on pit entry".

Excuse is that there should have been one as that is where you are supposed to find one. However location of lights was not a secret and not really particularly controversial. "Why" they are located where they are has been beaten to death.

"didnt see the lights on the outside of the corner because he was looking at the incident."

Basically same excuse as above which is the light was in the wrong position. But if you watch the video his statement doesn't hold water as the light panels would have been directly in his field of view. Of which he later owns up by simply saying it was his fault.

I am going to stop posting on this topic as we are beating a dead horse. As the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink." Please don't take this as a personal attack as I am trying to find ways to comment on your posts and not you. But you are willfully blind to these "minor" criticisms because you are clearly a big Hamilton fan. In the grand scheme of things this is small, but you have chosen to die on this hill.

To be clear, why this type of thing triggers me is that I am fine with subjective disagreements. But disagreeing on objective facts drives me nuts! I have no beef with Hamilton at all. This topic could be for any other driver and I would be just as obstinate. But more posting is not going to resolve this I am sure.

Richard

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I freely admit I am not helping this topic die, but I am entirely gobsmacked here.


What you just typed above as quotes from Hamilton "are" the excuses you claim do not exist. Let me spell it out.

"Didn't see light on pit entry".

Excuse is that there should have been one as that is where you are supposed to find one. However location of lights was not a secret and not really particularly controversial. "Why" they are located where they are has been beaten to death.

"didnt see the lights on the outside of the corner because he was looking at the incident."

Basically same excuse as above which is the light was in the wrong position. But if you watch the video his statement doesn't hold water as the light panels would have been directly in his field of view. Of which he later owns up by simply saying it was his fault.

I am going to stop posting on this topic as we are beating a dead horse. As the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink." Please don't take this as a personal attack as I am trying to find ways to comment on your posts and not you. But you are willfully blind to these "minor" criticisms because you are clearly a big Hamilton fan. In the grand scheme of things this is small, but you have chosen to die on this hill.

Richard

No, im not willfully blind, and no im not a big hamilton fan, again check my other posts, ive criticised him quite often, but when i dont see an issue then i will speak my mind.

again, stating he didnt see a light (because there wasnt one) and that he didnt see lights on the left hand side of the circuit (because he was looking at the incident) is not making an excuse, its making a statment, he is giving feedback to his team, not making an excuse for his actions.

the fact that you automatically assume someone is a massive hamilton fan, because they see something from a different point of view than yourself speaks volumes.

As someone said above, filters.....i have been completely factual, there are recordings above of hamiltons own words, so there is no bias, you can listen to his own words...but you seem to have a bias and are twisting and or interpreting his words which are made as statements into an excuse and adding to them.

If hamilton had come over the radio in a mood, shouting that there should have been lights on the entrance, or that the light panels should be in my eye line...its the circuits fault they are not, then thats an excuse....and id agree with you. But he didnt.

Yes he admitted to the mistake afterwards....but youd complain if he didnt, right?...and even then he didnt make an excuse..he just said it was his fault.

I suggest you should listen to the latest Mercedes debrief. (and that doesnt mean im a mercedes fan....just watch video from mutiple sources....before you think im a mercedes fan boy too)

[Greem]

Anyway, what about Ferrari...

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Greem

Anyway, what about Ferrari...

Full of excuses for their failure other than the obvious one :-p

[steve_r]

It seems a shame that when anyone expresses an opinion in support of a driver, they get labelled a fanboy. Or alternatively they get labelled a hater if they say something critical. I always used to think that this forum was better than that.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

Lewis' radio comms following his pit lane entry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMDAV7jX4Vg

Interesting.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Greem

Anyway, what about Ferrari...

They aren't doing too well.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

But more posting is not going to resolve this I am sure.

Hallelujah! Hasn't this been done to death yet?

It's getting pretty boring, for sure.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

No, im not willfully blind, and no im not a big hamilton fan, again check my other posts, ive criticised him quite often, but when i dont see an issue then i will speak my mind.

My opinion regarding your allegiances is purely based upon seeing your posts of a long period of time. If Hamilton is mentions in a negative light, you are frequently on the scene to provide contrary position. There is nothing wrong with that. But claiming this is not true makes no sense. Just look at this thread!

I spent a few minutes scanning through a few pages of your posts and I can't find any that fit your criteria of being critical of Hamilton (or even Mercedes). Generally you are pro Mercedes/Hamilton and negative towards others. Again, nothing wrong with that. But if you want to use prior critical posts as evidence of not being pro Hamilton, please provide examples vs. asking me to search for it.

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

the fact that you automatically assume someone is a massive hamilton fan, because they see something from a different point of view than yourself speaks volumes.

I have no problem with different points of view. That is what this forum is about. Also note, I didn't use the word "massive" (not even sure how to rank levels of fandom anyhow). Please be more specific on what you think I am saying in "volumes". No need to hint or be murky.

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Hallelujah! Hasn't this been done to death yet?

It's getting pretty boring, for sure.

My apologies. I will let ascarracinguk get the last word. I am done with this topic.

Richard

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

My apologies. I will let ascarracinguk get the last word. I am done with this topic.

Richard

As you said in an earlier post.....you don’t get the irony of your comment do you :-p

Of course there is also irony in me posting about your irony :-p

[steve_r]

Get a room guys

[Aysedasi]

I'm not a mod here, but if I was, I'd be tempted to close this thread for a day or two until we can find something else to talk about...

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'm not a mod here, but if I was, I'd be tempted to close this thread for a day or two until we can find something else to talk about...

eye spy with my little eye, something beginning with...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'm not a mod here, but if I was, I'd be tempted to close this thread for a day or two until we can find something else to talk about...

I am a mod but my powers are limited to the IndyCar forum only, otherwise I would do just that.

[Richard C]

No need to close it. Topic is closed on my end.

Richard

[crmalcolm]

I've been guilty of it myself already in this thread, but there is a difference between excuse as a verb and a noun.

As a noun, it is an explanation or justification for something. Nothing negative about it, although many see it as negative. To provide an excuse can be to accept blame as well.

As a verb, it is used to remove blame.

In the example from LH, he has provided an excuse in which he accepted blame. He hasn't attempted to excuse himself from blame.

Using the same word as a verb and noun seems to be the cause of disagreement here. Maybe we should accept the excuse from LH, excuse each other and move on?