[Official] Italian Grand Prix 2020: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 8

[S griffin]

Thanks for that Toto. Seems a little miscommunication there. I don’t know what else can be done about this situation with the pits being closed. Maybe a red light at the pit entrance would be best, anyone could understand that

[Adam43]

A red light on the pit lane is too late, especially at Monza! Imagine that is when they were seen, someone locks up and suddenly dives to the left back on to the track in front of someone else. We could have the why wasn’t there a signal earlier outrage.

Although they could have both. Put lights everywhere just in case.

These lights are on the marshal posts that every driver is aware of as they are also used for all other flags and signaling.

The team had less time to react than all others, but they told Hamilton too late.

https://youtu.be/iAQNJ-Ah0_g

FWIW. Some other Toto comments https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...rewed-hamilton

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24...an-gp-pit-stop

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Happens.

[Adam43]

Nice summary from Autosport. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...ed-pit-penalty

Love the diagram

[Richard C]

My thoughts on the closed pit entry is that

1. They should look at tweaking the light panel graphics. Frankly on the first replay of the incar, my brain saw "SC" not "X". I had to watch it a second time. Those panels are homologated, so they meet a specific spec, but i can't find the resolution/pixel count in the LED matrix. The resolution, looked not particularly high to me, so vsually I felt it was easy to mistake the "X" for "SC". Especially so at speed.

2. Placement of panels was fine. I am incredulous at the comments by Wolfe or Hamilton regarding them being surprised by the location. Is this not the type of thing you review during course walks and pre-race preparation? They are either being disingenuous or have been caught being complacent (making assumptions that are not accurate). I bet they pay more attention in the near future!

Richard

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

2. Placement of panels was fine. I am incredulous at the comments by Wolfe or Hamilton regarding them being surprised by the location. Is this not the type of thing you review during course walks and pre-race preparation? They are either being disingenuous or have been caught being complacent (making assumptions that are not accurate). I bet they pay more attention in the near future!

Richard

They were highlighted to the teams before the race. Check out the Autosport article.

As Masi said: "The map indicating those is distributed to all the teams in my event notes, and is part of the pitlane diagram. Obviously it is also in what forms part of the race director's event notes, which is used for the drivers' meeting."

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Nice summary from Autosport. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...ed-pit-penalty

Love the diagram

Quote from the article:

As Mercedes boss Toto Wolff said: "We spotted that last minute back home. One of the strategists just shouted into the radio whilst we were entering the pitlane.

I am assuming he is refering to their data centre back at base?

[Adam43]

I guess so. Or maybe Susie?

[wnut]

Thanks for the refs. Adam.

This from Hamilton makes absolute sense about how the situation happened:

"There were no signs that had an 'X' on it. I actually didn't see them as I was looking elsewhere," said the world champion. "So there was not really much more for me to do.

"If you're going through a right [hand corner] you're not looking left, you're looking over to the right and gauging the gap between you and the white line.

"Naturally, also when there's a car that's pulled over on the right-hand side, you're conscious of the marshals.

"Generally I don't remember any time coming here when that was the indication for the pit lane closing, I've never actually known that would be the left. So that was a new experience."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24...an-gp-pit-stop

Never get why you would put a signal covering something on the right hand side of the track, way off on the left of the track!

I think the red light on the pit lane should be made obligatory, I thought they were, can't think of a single example of a pit lane that did not have a red light to close it if necessary.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by wnut

Thanks for the refs. Adam.

This from Hamilton makes absolute sense about how the situation happened:

"There were no signs that had an 'X' on it. I actually didn't see them as I was looking elsewhere," said the world champion. "So there was not really much more for me to do.

"If you're going through a right [hand corner] you're not looking left, you're looking over to the right and gauging the gap between you and the white line.

"Naturally, also when there's a car that's pulled over on the right-hand side, you're conscious of the marshals.

"Generally I don't remember any time coming here when that was the indication for the pit lane closing, I've never actually known that would be the left. So that was a new experience."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24...an-gp-pit-stop

Never get why you would put a signal covering something on the right hand side of the track, way off on the left of the track!

I think the red light on the pit lane should be made obligatory, I thought they were, can't think of a single example of a pit lane that did not have a red light to close it if necessary.

If you read those arguments above in isolation, then you can then shake your head in agreement and think it all was done quite badly and Hamilton/Mercedes has a point to make. That is until you really look at the evidence. Yes the light panel is on the left side. However if you are a driver who is watching the inside corner (not the left), what do you think moved into and through your sight line not once but twice? The light panel. Just watch the video

https://youtu.be/iAQNJ-Ah0_g?t=172

Hamilton says he was looking elsewhere. Where was he looking? Not where he says he was looking! From the video he wasn't fiddling with knobs on the steering wheel, etc. I think he saw what he expected to see "SC", or knew something was on the display, but didn't pay attention. The real issue is that his team was telling him to box. So he was mentally committed and thinking about next steps (tire choice, etc.) not trying to see and process reasons to stay out.

90% of their arguments don't make sense and frankly is just pure BS, but what are you going to say? Most people would make excuses as well. They could add a third panel on pit entry which might help, but only if not going quickly and you have already missed the prior two that should have been directly in your line of sight. And he might have driven past that hypothetical third one as well, or had to stop in a position that would have been unsafe to return to the track leaving him stuck on pit entrance. Its an honest mistake. Especially given the circumstances. But the arguments don't hold up. If me, I would make a different argument (as I did regarding tweaking the panel graphics to make pit closure stand out a bit more, but even then it is a flashing red "X". Maybe increase the tempo of the flashing.)

Richard

[Aysedasi]

Or just have the pit lane closed signal in the car....

[Akrapovic]

"There were no signs with an X on it"

"I didn't see them as I was looking elsewhere"

Well, these statements contradict one another.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Sounds to me like Lewis and Mercedes just got caught out, and are making excuses.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Sounds to me like Lewis and Mercedes just got caught out, and are making excuses.

Sadly, it seems that way now and I'm not sure why they feel the need to do so.

Shortly after the race, they were tweeting that they made a mistake and were bold enough to own up. This earnt them respect.
If they are now making excuses, that respect is lost.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Sounds to me like Lewis and Mercedes just got caught out, and are making excuses.

at what point has Lewis made an excuse?

he admitted full responsibility straight after the race.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

at what point has Lewis made an excuse?

he admitted full responsibility straight after the race.

I believe he did both. I suspect the quote below is what you are referencing

We didn’t do a great job necessarily with the pit stop. Honestly, I didn’t see those boards, so I take responsibly for that – it’s something I will learn from.

It's hard to understand the timing of various quotes, but both exist. Some complaints/excuses, but also him owned up to the error. I suspect they happened in that order. In this end, this boils down to "Hamilton is human". What drives this conversation is that some place him up on a pedestal and defend him to the death. This results in some (some haters, some not) enjoying pointing out that he is not perfect.

Richard

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I believe he did both. I suspect the quote below is what you are referencing



It's hard to understand the timing of various quotes, but both exist. Some complaints/excuses, but also him owned up to the error. I suspect they happened in that order. In this end, this boils down to "Hamilton is human".

Richard

im sorry, but i dont think he could be more clear, he admitted to not seeing the boards and admitted it was his mistake

at no point did he try to make an excuse for his mistake. anyone interpreting that otherwise, needs to give their head a wobble.

Sometimes i think Lewis could simultaneously cure the coronavirus, solve world hunger and give away all of his money, and people would still have a go at him

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

im sorry, but i dont think he could be more clear, he admitted to not seeing the boards and admitted it was his mistake

at no point did he try to make an excuse for his mistake. anyone interpreting that otherwise, needs to give their head a wobble.

Sometimes i think Lewis could simultaneously cure the coronavirus, solve world hunger and give away all of his money, and people would still have a go at him

I mostly agree with you, but he was quoted as saying the boards with the X's didn't exist. They clearly did.

I don't think it's Lewis fault, but there was a wee excuse which was then overwritten later.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

at what point has Lewis made an excuse?

he admitted full responsibility straight after the race.

exactly.

excuses are something one makes when trying to avoid responsibility and/or punishment.

to me these are just explanations and fairly believable ones at that.

but of course you remember 2009 when LH deliberately misled the stewards? dude cannot be trusted!

anyways, not the same but similar was Austria (?) qualifying this year when Bottas went off and a yellow flag came up. LH right behind him just carried on with his hot lap ignoring or missing the markers. the timing of it may have made it difficult to react immediately but there is a case to be made that LH has been sloppy with markers this year.

so far it has cost him a pole and probably a win there and it cost his a win in Italy.

he is still 50pts ahead in the championship after carelessly giving up 2 wins...thats crazy to me!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

at no point did he try to make an excuse for his mistake. anyone interpreting that otherwise, needs to give their head a wobble.

You don't get how ironic that comment is right?

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Sometimes i think Lewis could simultaneously cure the coronavirus, solve world hunger and give away all of his money, and people would still have a go at him

Some are blinded by their hate, some by their love.

Richard

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

You don't get how ironic that comment is right?


Some are blinded by their hate, some by their love.

Richard

Do explain....biases set aside, Hamilton admitted to his mistake at the earliest opportunity, didnt make an excuse and has said nothing about it since, so I don’t understand how anyone could interpret his comments any other way.

[Greem]

Ah, the joys of reporting.

Reporters will always ask questions in specific ways to try to elicit the answer that is then attributable to them; they get published; consumers of the published answers then consume them in different orders and with different frames of reference.

It's all a bit Leslie Nielsen really: not much to see here, ladies & gentlemen!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Do explain....biases set aside, Hamilton admitted to his mistake at the earliest opportunity, didnt make an excuse and has said nothing about it since, so I don’t understand how anyone could interpret his comments any other way.

As pointed out above. There were initial excuses made and then he owned up to the mistake. You are trying to act as if the first didn't exist.

Hamilton did a perfectly human thing of getting upset, saying things that don't hold up under scrutiny and then to his credit, owned up to the mistake. Even then, his complaints were not over the top. He wasn't walking around the paddock punching people in the face or going on social media and bashing F1! But because of who Hamilton is (very good), he gets put under a microscope anytime he is not perfect. Fair or not, that is the situation he has to live in.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

at what point has Lewis made an excuse?

he admitted full responsibility straight after the race.

Indeed he did admit full responsibility but he initially made some excuses; he is human.

[Aysedasi]

That being established, now can we move on.....?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

...
Sometimes i think Lewis could simultaneously cure the coronavirus, solve world hunger and give away all of his money, and people would still have a go at him

Well, he could have done it sooner!