Top Hat sold to Masters

[simon drabble]

word on the bush telegraph is that Julius has sold out to the Masters empire.... Top Hat and the associated series will be run by Masters. This is giving them the ability to run a whole meeting with there own series - their Brands meeting will clash (and probably cancel) Pau. Do we collectively think this is a good thing? Personally speaking so long as they work with HSCC so they dont clash the better meetings I think it could be a good thing. My only concern would be the increased cost of the Top Hat/Cloth Cap races, howvere they are stricter when it comes to policing FIA papers and spec so the Hot Rod days will be numbered!!

[zefarelly]

I can't decide if its good or not, I don't know anything about Masters other than they made Gentleman drivers more expensive.

As I understand it, JT @ Top Hat will still be heavily involved in TH, OBG, CC etc so I would expect him to excercise his right to maintain the Camaraderie and good value for money. otherwise you won't see him for dust, I suspect.

A nominal membership fee I can understand and could live with but £600 a year for a few newsletters and entry forms is quite frankly taking the pith. the HSCC have it right in that respect, and run a good organisation.

A bigger group will certainly make circuit choice better as they will have the power to shop knowing thay can fill an entire weekends racing. and if the stick to longer races and FiA spec there won't be much of a clash with the HSCC? particularly as we'd hope to see a few Euro jaunts on the calendar

from my point of view an FiA TC group is great. HRSR and CTCC will pick up the pieces, which may well boost their grids, and it lays the standard for the FiA run series to try and step up to. Not sure where it leaves U2TC ? personally I think a good organisation could fill grids to run an over 2L and under 2L races, as was done in period. but it all boils down to costs, most of us tin top racers are n't wealthy men and don't race them for fun while the GT40's being serviced !!!

[Peter Mallett]

If true then I won't be racing next year. Can't justify 600 quid for club membership.

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

If true then I won't be racing next year. Can't justify 600 quid for club membership.

its true! I think you will find that the fees are reduced for one race (presumably you wil only be looking at the Groovy Baby series) and from memory £600 is probably more than it will be. Is your car eligible for the HSCC 70's saloon races? That might be an alternative

[Peter Mallett]

It's a group 1 car so not eligible for anything other GB or CTCRC. I don't have time to do any championship races so people like me will have nowhere to race.

[john ruston]

Best of luck I'm of to play golf

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Best of luck I'm of to play golf

that is what generally happens when you retire!! Congratulations on the Merlyn, those of us still with them thank you for ground breaking price ;-)

[zefarelly]

I don't think its that bad Peter, but its a distinct possibility that an organiser might think that by offering a few sausage rolls in a tent and a few 'trimmings' people will go 'ooh' and not notice a 50% price rise !

as with many things (not just motorsport), theres a danger that when it gets popular people try making money out of it, and its the grass roots backbone that gets priced out of the market.

Hopefully that won't be the case here, if it is someone will bounce back with a sensible sries I'm sure, theres a loyal and reliable market for it.

[Peter Mallett]

I'm not holding my breath on this. The problem is one of available time. I'd gladly run with the CTCRC if I could do more than a few events. Clearly that's not an option currently.

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

I don't think its that bad Peter, but its a distinct possibility that an organiser might think that by offering a few sausage rolls in a tent and a few 'trimmings' people will go 'ooh' and not notice a 50% price rise !

as with many things (not just motorsport), theres a danger that when it gets popular people try making money out of it, and its the grass roots backbone that gets priced out of the market.

Hopefully that won't be the case here, if it is someone will bounce back with a sensible sries I'm sure, theres a loyal and reliable market for it.

To be fair to The Masters their hospitality is excellant and as a series organiser do there best to make life easy for the teams, as did Julius and as he is handing over for at least a season I am sure it will appear seamless to the competitor and hopefully better!

As an aside what has happened to Simon Adams/MST series - has it died a death or is it still looking to take place?

[zefarelly]

I agree SImon, but how do you justify £600 a year membership, I don't for a minute think they'll try and maintain that because Top Hat would suffer badly, GB and OBG would die in a flash

We need to wait a few weeks and see what the intentions are really, this is all speculation

For Top Hat I'd like to see, FiA Appk, running a championship would be good, but I don't think many people could afford to compete for a full season

though judging by Spa relaibility and driving standards you'd only need to finish a few races to win !!!


I think SImon called it quits

[simon drabble]

re £600 I think last year it was £500 but it was not that amount if you only did one race. With 2 UK rounds (Donington and Brands GP) I would havethought most people will do at least two rounds and then it starts to make more sense. As an aside I think HSCC will be doing more long distance races next year for its Classic Sports Car series which of course is better value as its is run as a club for its members.

[GORDON STREETER]

Pete, just build another car with my capri shell, you must have loads of spare time!

[Peter Mallett]

@rse. I'm sitting in an airport lounge waiting for a delayed flight! Otherwise I wouldn't be on here!

[zefarelly]

I'm only really looking at it from a tin top perspective (as usual !!)

2005-6 has been like this

HRSR - a law unto themselves and therefore unique
CTCC - half way house
Top HAt - sort if App K
U2 TC AppK but no V8's, at a time when every other cars a V8
FiA series - expensive and poorly run/supported (allegedly)

theres a fantastic opportunity to sweep up the bottom 3 on that list in one series, maybe even running 2 races at smaller venues. if they get it wrong though it will become 'exclusive/elitist' and most of us will stay away waiting for someone to jump in with a viable affordable alternative, and I think that is exactly why Top Hat has been successful.

it could go either way . . . .

[simon drabble]

the front of any grid will be expensive relative to the mid and back field. However if the series is run to FIA regs and driving standards policed (as they are in the other Masters series) then you will have a great series combining the best of everything. I am hopeful.

[midgetman]

£600 registration/membership fee? Wow! Makes the Legendary Circuits series look cheap - no registration fee, races at Nordschleife, Monza and Zandvoort, 2 hours track time per meeting AND hospitality which includes all you can drink (believe me, I can manage my entry fee's worth alone.......).

Is this take over fall out from the FIA taking back historic racing (Motor Sport this month)?

[zefarelly]

no idea, but I think I'm going to be far more selective and careful in where I race and with whom !

[GORDON STREETER]

Its allways a catch 22 situation with tracks abroad, ok you get better deals but money spent on getting there and time off work offsets this. But I will
still do it while I can !!!!

[esper]

I think fees are going over the top. Organisers have to understand that racing is first and the rest is a present!, I mean a cadeau (whenever they can arange) Personally I don't think over professionalised organising is of any good to historic racing. If the real racers stay home.........................finally accepting 600 sterling is over the top ...........( The racers that fill a field for more than 10 years , exponants of good driving standards, exponants of being displaying nice cars , for the car not for the winning.)
As we say you can fill up the jar with water untill it breaks, well I wait for that one!!!!!!!!
The racing accountant will never be able to keep historic racing to an appropriate funy and enjoyable atmosphere not for him neither for the onlookers. He'll need the first type of guy not being able to invent atmosphere , only able to organise bucks!

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm,

Made some enquiries and whilst there will be a registration fee I'm told it won't be as much as 600 quid.

Julius has his reasons & I'm sure he'll reveal them in due time. If all the Top Hat series are treated well by the new organisation it may turn out to be a good thing.

Perhaps we should wait for the official announcement.

In the meantime has anyone here had experience of this organisaton?

[terence]

Maybe one of the reason,s was the entry fee,s he was charging!

[Peter Mallett]

They were pretty reaonab!e when compared to a 10 lapper at other events.

[GORDON STREETER]

Pete ,are you still at the airport playing with your gameboy!!!

[GORDON STREETER]

How things have changed . In 1972 I did a meeting in Germany, and Holland the next day . I won £600 had a free race entry and free ferry. I suppose its now payback time !!