[WEC] FIA World Endurance Championship

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by vyselegend

But now that it is officialy a World Championship, it becomes critical that it steps on each continent of the Earth. Obviously it has to keep the big ones (LM24, Sebring12, and PLM), and it would be nice to keep classics such as Spa, Monza, Nurburgring or Silverstone (maybe with a rotation system), and have at least one race in Japan (Suzuka), but then it should absolutely include one South American race (Sao Paulo), one African (Kyalami) and one Australian (Adelaide?) too.

So IMHO the calandar soon has to extend to at least 10 races a season, which will be hard cost wise, as we just stated it will all be 1000km races minimum...

This just won't happen. It will become one or two in Europe, plus LM, Sebring, maybe Brazil, definately China and maybe India or another Asian round.

The bigger question is going to quickly become, how to keep the regional series relevant. In all probability Europe will survive, but it is probable that the ALMS will not. The question then becomes, what will happen with Sebring, will it be removed, with no stops in North America at all? The other question being, how many entries will this World Championship get. Will entries in the low 20's suffice as a draw? LMS has threatened not to be involved, and if the ALMS fails there is no support categories in North America.

This whole thing is foolish, and will come crashing down in a few years.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The bigger question is going to quickly become, how to keep the regional series relevant. In all probability Europe will survive, but it is probable that the ALMS will not. The question then becomes, what will happen with Sebring, will it be removed, with no stops in North America at all? The other question being, how many entries will this World Championship get. Will entries in the low 20's suffice as a draw? LMS has threatened not to be involved, and if the ALMS fails there is no support categories in North America.

The best-case scenario is that the WEC won't need to rely on any national guest starters to have competitive starting grids.

Sebring will always survive as a WEC round, the event is too important to sports car racing, it dosen't need the ALMS. PLM is another matter, it's a fan favorite but the European teams don't seem to dig it very much for some reason..

To be honest, I don't really see much of a future for the ALMS. Interest in sports car racing in the US dosen't seem to be big enough to keep two series alive and Grand-Am simply has more potent backers behind them.

If BMW ends their programme after this year (which is likely with DTM coming up, unless RLR can fund it independendtly) and Corvette choses to do WEC instead of the ALMS then the series is completely busted. Currently, the ALMS is being kept alive by its GT class which is attractive because of the manufacturer involvement... if that breaks down, the series has nothing to fall back on.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by vyselegend

it would be nice to keep classics such as Spa, Monza, Nurburgring or Silverstone (maybe with a rotation system)

Exactly. But the Nürburgring GP layout is too tight in comparison with endurance classics. I'd rather have the old Hockenheim... But Spa is a better option than a German circuit.

Originally Posted by vyselegend

IMHO the calandar soon has to extend to at least 10 races a season, which will be hard cost wise, as we just stated it will all be 1000km races minimum...

Originally Posted by NelisB

I don't think it's the best thing to start off with at least 10 races in the first season of the championship. It's great to think big but if you think about the privateers starting with a smaller amount of races will benefit them hugely. it will allow privateers to enter the first season to make a name for themselfs without having to pay a huge amount of money to make it to all the races. This can then be used to seek out sponsors for when the championship get's bigger.
So in my opinion they should have a maximum of 8 races in the first couple of years and try to expand after that. Making sure that the series get's popular and starts to attract crowds is the main thing they should focus on in the first couple of years...

I disagree with both. An endurance racing championship can't have so many races. It's impossible to televise all of them. I vote for 2 or 3 European races, 2 North American and 2 or 3 in other continents. Small privateers will run in continental championships.

Originally Posted by Stranger

So we went from a championship that included Le Mans, to the FIA Sports Car Championship without Le Mans until 2003, then Le Mans Series from 2004, Intercontinental Le Mans Cup now...to FIA World Endurance Championship including Le Mans in 2012.

Hey, don't confuse European and world championships.

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Exactly. But the Nürburgring GP layout is too tight in comparison with endurance classics. I'd rather have the old Hockenheim... But Spa is a better option than a German circuit.
.....

I have to agree there unfortunately

[Jonerz]

One of the multitudes of privateers with rent-a-drivers to fill out the GT WC grid.

Chris

[CTD]

Good news!
But also bad.
Now the FIA has influence over Le Mans .

But let's hope this is something which will grow strong, and attract more major manufactures! (Toyota!)

[AGD]

Originally Posted by CTD

Good news!
But also bad.
Now the FIA has influence over Le Mans .

But let's hope this is something which will grow strong, and attract more major manufactures! (Toyota!)

I guess the FIA has always had their influence on Le Mans even during the intervening years (the chicanes still exist and there are threats for more, the big honkin' fins, etc.), but yeah, I'm of the opinion that the less FIA, the better! On the other hand, I suppose world championship status does offer some prestige, but it has hardly worked miracles for Ratel and the WTCC. In the end, we just get new (and more confusing) names yet again. I don't even know how casual fans keep up with this when we die-hards have so many problems understanding what is going on!

[deggis]

Could ACO even do this alone? Resources etc.?

I guess Todt likes sportscars.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by deggis

Could ACO even do this alone? Resources etc.?

I guess Todt likes sportscars.

I'm not really sure what the FIA is bringing to the table aside from lending the ACO "World Championship" status, but we'll see what the details are over the next few days and weeks.

As for the schedule, I'd imagine the 2012 speculation still holds. Right now the ILMC races on 3 continents, is this fine for WC status? Will there need to be a 4th continent?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by AGD

As for the schedule, I'd imagine the 2012 speculation still holds. Right now the ILMC races on 3 continents, is this fine for WC status? Will there need to be a 4th continent?

International Sporting Code requires 3.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by AGD

I'm not really sure what the FIA is bringing to the table aside from lending the ACO "World Championship" status, but we'll see what the details are over the next few days and weeks.

As for the schedule, I'd imagine the 2012 speculation still holds. Right now the ILMC races on 3 continents, is this fine for WC status? Will there need to be a 4th continent?

It's the prestige and marketing value of World Championship status, ILMC doesn't mean anything.

These days the FIA set criteria that need to be filled, but the running and organisation will be down to the ACO.

Safety and calendar sign-off go through the FIA, but that's always been the case.

[CTD]

double post

[CTD]

Just posted this in another thread, but it belongs here:

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

Yes, that's obvious from the press release, but any involvement of the FIA in Le Mans is a matter of concern to me.

Remember Jean-Marie Balestre? How long before it all goes wrong again? Worse still, what if Mr Ecclestone decides he wants a part of it?

Ecclestone has nothing to do with FIA.
Ecclestone is head man of the hedge fond which owns the F1 brand, ei. the Marketing branch of F1.
Ecclestone therefor will have NOTHING to say at Le Mans, unless he somehow purchase power from ACO.

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

I'm still hoping that Todt remembers the state of Le Mans when he ran the show at Peugeot Sport, and does everything possible to prevent sportscar racing from going into another nosedive like that.

Todt entered Le Mans with Peugeot Talbot Sport, when it was about to go wrong. Remember the 3.5L rules, which killed the Group C cars?, The Peugeot 905 was one of the first of them.

But Todt, i respect, and i really think and hope that he know the spirit of Le Mans, and wants to improve this.

[chernaudi]

This has great potential, if it's carried out properly.

Having a legitimate WSC is something that many thought would never happen again after it's meltdown almost 20 years ago. And it was down to the ideocy of Balestre, Mosley, and Eccostone getting involved. Thankfully, Jean Todt isn't Max Mosley or JM Balestre, and he's successfully stood up to Bernie as FIA president. M. Todt is no ideot, and he saw the orginal WSC implode in '92/'93, and obviously doesn't want to repeat that mistake.

And this may be a shot in the arm for the ALMS, as with at least one (maybe two) rounds if Sebring and/or PLM are included, it could get them to see the light and get Don Panoz, Scott Atherton, and Scott Elkins to throw out their reservations over the GT3 cars in the ALMS and get rid of the GTC and LMPC classes sooner rather than later.

However, this depends on something that sportscar racing has never had much of--stable rules. The ALMS' issues are largely due to instability in the ACO's rules, and, especially, IMSA's reactions to them. IMSA should've seen their issues coming and got their heads out of the sand earlier than they did. If the FIA/ACO can come up with a reasonably stable set of rules that IMSA can adopt that make sense, then this could be a big reprive for the ALMS, LMS, and other similar regional series.

Then there's the fact that Ratel and Peter don't entirely see eye to eye, and haven't for nearly 15 years, after Ratel turned the BPR series into the orginal FIA GT championship.

This has great potential to work, but as the late Dale Ernhardt said about NASCAR and corporate geed, "they can't get too greedy." IMSA did during the big factory years of '06-08, and look at they fight they've had to right the ship, though better managment would've helped big time there, too.

If the ACO and the FIA can manage this, it'll be a great spectical, but if not, it'll end up like the mid '90s, where a potent but ill-conceived rules package sent the series and LM spiraling out of control in as little as 18 months.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And this may be a shot in the arm for the ALMS, as with at least one (maybe two) rounds if Sebring and/or PLM are included, it could get them to see the light and get Don Panoz, Scott Atherton, and Scott Elkins to throw out their reservations over the GT3 cars in the ALMS and get rid of the GTC and LMPC classes sooner rather than later.

I'm not really sure how this changes anything for the ALMS. Ok, maybe there will be more manufacturer interest, but I'd imagine that the WEC will be the magnet. Ultimately, I fear that the ALMS will still need the GTC and LMPC cars to fill the fields.

If the ACO and the FIA can manage this, it'll be a great spectical, but if not, it'll end up like the mid '90s, where a potent but ill-conceived rules package sent the series and LM spiraling out of control in as little as 18 months.

Success or failure is probably still in the hands of the ACO much more so than the FIA. The FIA could screw things up, but I guess they could have even without granting WC status by forcing the ACO to add more chicanes to the circuit and by making the cars look ugly by mandating big honkin' fins.

Anyway, I think the big thing will be to see how the LMS organizes for next year. They could set a new paradigm for domestic Le Mans style series, but they could also make the LMS completely irrelevant. I'm sure the ALMS will be watching.

[Mal]

I would hope this is good news for ALMS to as it should open up the GT class to a lot more cars

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Mal

I would hope this is good news for ALMS to as it should open up the GT class to a lot more cars

How do you figure? I can't see the ALMS adopting Ratel style GT1/GT2/GT3 equalization rules. There really isn't a need for them to do that as long as GTE is strong. I'm sure the ALMS will stick with the ACO's regular GTE rules (which will not incorporate the multi-class equalization).

[Mal]

Originally Posted by AGD

How do you figure? I can't see the ALMS adopting Ratel style GT1/GT2/GT3 equalization rules. There really isn't a need for them to do that as long as GTE is strong. I'm sure the ALMS will stick with the ACO's regular GTE rules (which will not incorporate the multi-class equalization).

If the new rules are adopted by the ACO for Le Mans I would have thought the ALMS will adopt largely the same rules

[Jonerz]

I don't think the ALMS and FIA (and the SRO in particular) are any closer as a result of this branding exercise between the ACO and FIA.

Chris

[NightStalk3r]

Sounds like horse ****, really disappointed with the ACO.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Is it too soon to start wondering what the TV package will be for the WEC? With World Championship status hopefully it will interest broadcasters in North America to carry it.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

What's the major drama? FIA won't have more influence on ACO racing than it currently has on SRO's. Both organisations already have to comply with the basic FIA regs anyway, but keep pretty much total control over the business side.
So ILMC will be renamed into WEC and have additional championships for drivers etc (what's the Cup all about btw?)

This could simply be a renaming job with some changes like the drivers championship that you mentioned. Those changes could have happened even without the FIA WC status of course. We'll have to see what other changes there are especially in regard to if the European races will be stand alone events and so forth. Also, we'll have to see if there are LMP2 and GTE-Am championships.

It's hard to say what the GT Cup is all about. Is it simply the WEC for GTE (albeit only for manufacturers?)? Who knows.

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Is it too soon to start wondering what the TV package will be for the WEC? With World Championship status hopefully it will interest broadcasters in North America to carry it.

I'm not optimistic. The ACO makes the ALMS look like the NFL in regard to TV deals. Even the LMS has a better European TV deal than ILMC, although I guess that is debatable. At best those of us in North America might get some web streaming, tape delayed highlights on Speed/Bloomberg/etc., or something like that.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by AGD

I'm not optimistic. The ACO makes the ALMS look like the NFL in regard to TV deals. Even the LMS has a better European TV deal than ILMC, although I guess that is debatable. At best those of us in North America might get some web streaming, tape delayed highlights on Speed/Bloomberg/etc., or something like that.

Huh? Eurosport showed Spa flag to flag, same thing will happen with Le Mans. There' not really much more than you can ask for..

[AGD]

I guess they must have signed a late deal because my understanding was that ILMC races were only going to get spotty Eurosport coverage. Are all the ILMC races going to be covered in full from here on out? The bottom line is that those of us in America aren't going to see it without using a justin.tv stream or something.

Speaking of which, Dagys tweeted a couple of minutes ago that the word on the street is that there will only be one North American ILMC/WEC round. Yikes. I assume he is talking about next year, it's hard to tell on Twitter. I hope nobody is heading to the edge of the cliff!

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Huh? Eurosport showed Spa flag to flag, same thing will happen with Le Mans. There' not really much more than you can ask for..

Sebring "coverage" was below standards even for Eurosport, just one short highlight broadcast on Sunday morning and some stuff over at French ES. Yes Spa and LM are full of WIN indeed - as usual - but Eurosport's attention to sportscars has often faded pretty quickly after the big one.