Did anyone else notice Ralfs...

jimclark · 3 Sep 2001, 21:30 (Ref:140831)

...composure throughout his "debacle"? I noticed it whilst happening...announcers going off and he just sat there, calm as could be. No frantic signaling or anythimg. Has anyone else found out why?

francis · 3 Sep 2001, 22:41 (Ref:140862)

Ah yes - but we weren't privy to what was being said on the radio!!??*/***

jimclark · 3 Sep 2001, 23:16 (Ref:140883)

Wrong answer....this was not just a case of neglect or incompetence. Otherwise we would have seen some frustration on Ralfs part. He knew what was going on. There's a reason and the source is ever so obvious...although it took me all day to think of the correct source.

I don't know where the rest of you are but I am getting a re-air of the race in about an hour on Speedvision and i'm going to watch very closely (along with taping so i can watch some more)

there was a reason though, for sure, t'was no blunder other than time.... thus no panic...unless that came at the time that it was realised that time was running out. That's all for now.

facco · 3 Sep 2001, 23:17 (Ref:140885)

Quote:

Originally posted by francis
Ah yes - but we weren't privy to what was being said on the radio!!??*/***

The BMW Williams radio was working? We get a lot of info about they have a lot of problems with telecomunications

Wrex · 3 Sep 2001, 23:19 (Ref:140889)

Was'nt it the Ferrari Mechanics that got the Willaims Boys attention?

jimclark · 3 Sep 2001, 23:27 (Ref:140896)

Wasn't necessary!!!

**Bononi** · 3 Sep 2001, 23:43 (Ref:140902)

What do you want the guy to do ???

His team just screwed it all...

Liz · 4 Sep 2001, 01:16 (Ref:140939)

Judging by the way Ralf went boiling into Parc Ferme to whinge to his rather startled brother, I would hardly call him composed and collected.

But if you want to be all mysterious and hint that it was not the real Ralf Schumacher in the car, but rather a Pod Person or Juan Pablo or possibly Jensen Button ....

Well, be my guest.

jimclark · 4 Sep 2001, 02:36 (Ref:140949)

Easy Liz...it was right at: WilliamsF1.co.uk

"Belgian Grand Prix - RACE
2nd September 2001

"Ralf leads the start after Juan Pablo was relegated (from pole position) to the back of the grid. For different reasons Ralf was soon have the same treatment at the next start ...

"Weather
Overcast but dry. Air temperature 16°C. Track temperature 16°C.

"After the best possible result in qualifying, the BMW WilliamsF1 Team failed to score any points in the Belgian Grand Prix. Due to problems on the grid at both the first and second starts neither of the drivers were able to take advantage of their front row positions. Juan Pablo Montoya stalled at the first, and at the second Ralf Schumacher could not leave the grid as his car was still raised off the track after the team had run out of time changing a rear wing beam. At the end of the race Ralf was seventh, while Juan Pablo retired with an engine failure just after the re-start."

Thus no surprise on the pre-grid. He and they were not shocked because it was known that they didn't have time to finish and clear the crew from the grid in time. Thus they left him up and returned after the rest went off on the formation lap as required by the rules. It wasn't just a bungling idiot(s) accidentally leaving him "up on blocks" as claimed by so many.

f1manoz · 4 Sep 2001, 09:31 (Ref:141028)

That is a fair enough excuse jimclark too.

Better off finishing off the work and start from the back than starting from the front, receiving a stop and go BUT driving in what could be an unsafe car. So, in essence, the Williams boys made the right, and safe, decision.

As for Ralf, I think he looked rather composed and took it all in his stride and drove a great race to finish just out of the points, considering he had to whack the engine back a few hundred revs.

Liz · 4 Sep 2001, 16:06 (Ref:141194)

Phooey. I think the mechanics just didn't realise it wasn't Juan Pablo's car! I bet if you read the lips of the Ferrari guys, that's what they were shouting: "Hey, guys, that's not Juan Pablo's car!"

Ralf's Girl · 4 Sep 2001, 19:55 (Ref:141303)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
Judging by the way Ralf went boiling into Parc Ferme to whinge to his rather startled brother, I would hardly call him composed and collected.

I saw him smile while they were in parc ferme...didn't look like he was whinging to me.

BBKing · 4 Sep 2001, 20:05 (Ref:141314)

Alesi was congratulating Schumacher and could not resist to pad little bro on his shoulder. Little one was not amused that a senior citizen like Alesi would end up ahead of him….LOL

If little bro has to be upset about something is his own inability to overtake. He could not overtake Panis and Alesi. I guess he was saving his engine…LOL

Ralf's Girl · 4 Sep 2001, 20:16 (Ref:141326)

Quote:

Originally posted by BBKing
bro has to be upset about something is his own inability to overtake. He could not overtake Panis and Alesi. I guess he was saving his engine…LOL

1. If he had gone steaming in and tried to overtake Panis and got into a tangle with him and the Arrows (can't remember which one) that he was following you'd be having a go at him for that
2. He was getting very close to Alesi at Les Combes - given another lap he'd pobably have got past
3. BMW weren't running the engine at full power, according to Martin Brundle, in order to preserve reliability.

**Bononi** · 4 Sep 2001, 21:55 (Ref:141420)

BBKing, man don't be so harsh !

There are times a good driving isn't about passing.

Ralfie made a great race despite the troubles in the way !

(I'm missing Moffie, that's a good oportunity for bashing...)

Blackjack21 · 5 Sep 2001, 06:07 (Ref:141565)

Originally posted by RalfGirl:

Quote:

1. If he had gone steaming in and tried to overtake Panis and got into a tangle with him and the Arrows (can't remember which one) that he was following you'd be having a go at him for that

The fact of the matter is once again Ralf couldn't get the job done!

Valve Bounce · 5 Sep 2001, 06:57 (Ref:141575)

The Williams explanation sounds like bull$hit to me. What could they possibility do to Ralf's car that necessitated the car to be left that long on the jacks? They didn't even know the car was up on jacks until the Ferrari mechanics were waving frantically to tell them. I reckon they had the tyre warmers under the wheel, took same off, then trundled off to the pits. They just forgot about the jack, that's all, just like Ferrari forgot one of Eddie's wheels some time back.

Glad you spotted that, WREX.

laxman · 5 Sep 2001, 09:37 (Ref:141615)

Quote:

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
The Williams explanation sounds like bull$hit to me. What could they possibility do to Ralf's car that necessitated the car to be left that long on the jacks? They didn't even know the car was up on jacks until the Ferrari mechanics were waving frantically to tell them. I reckon they had the tyre warmers under the wheel, took same off, then trundled off to the pits. They just forgot about the jack, that's all, just like Ferrari forgot one of Eddie's wheels some time back. Glad you spotted that, WREX.

Exactly.Correct me if im wrong here, but didnt he race the same car for 4 laps of the race!!Sure, Michael overtook him within no time, but he was able to stay ahead of Rubens.It would surely have been better for the Williams team to leave him there with a slower car rather than put him on the back of a grid with a marginally quicker one.And BTW, what is all that about a rear wining beam?I dint see them doing any great work on the car.Did anyone see anything?

laxman

Valve Bounce · 5 Sep 2001, 10:42 (Ref:141654)

Fist of all, the Michelins are very slow in cool conditions before the tyre gets really hot - that's why Ralf was a little slower in the early laps. However, all I saw were some smiling mechenics taking off the tyre warming jackets and trundling off. There should not have been any work required on the rear as Ralf was never involved in any coming together with another car.

**Bononi** · 5 Sep 2001, 11:28 (Ref:141689)

I didn't see any work on Ralfie's car, why they used the jacks for, then ?

Liz · 5 Sep 2001, 11:48 (Ref:141704)

Judging by what the rest of the Williams team has said since, this was simply a major stuff-up on their part. Patrick Head was quite embarrassed about it and said that it proved that Williams still had a long way to go. I imagine the air at Williams GP was quite blue after the race! (Williams blue of course.)

Murph · 5 Sep 2001, 13:19 (Ref:141758)

Saw this on the Speedvision web site.....this is Alan Henry's article on Spa......he details the reason for Ralf being on the jacks befor the start of the "second Race".....

" Yet the team found itself caught on the hop after the race had been stopped following Burti's accident. After the safety car led the field back to the starting grid, Arrows driver Jos Verstappen hopped out of his car and drew Juan Pablo Montoya's attention to the rear of his Williams FW23.

A rear-wing supporting beam had cracked and was duly changed before Montoya took his place on the grid for the restart. But the team wisely decided to change the same component on Ralf Schumacher's car, a task which involved raising the car onto jackstands on the front row of the grid. However, they were then forced to suspend their labors as the mechanics withdrew from the grid to conform with the regulation which prohibits any work on a car within 15sec of the start of the formation lap. Unfortunately, they left the car up on its jackstands!

Once the pack had departed, Ralf's FW23 was duly lowered from its stands and allowed to set off to take up position at the back of the grid, leaving brother Michael with a cakewalk to his 52nd career victory. In the event, it was left for the remarkable Giancarlo Fisichella to show what Michelin's "option" tire – a new combination of a soft compound and a proven construction – could deliver around the swoops and swerves of the Belgian track.

Fisichella's Benetton B201 vaulted from eighth to fourth at the first start, and from sixth to second at the second. He then proceeded to see off both McLaren/Mercedes for much of the race until Coulthard slipped by as they were lapping Enrique Bernoldi's Arrows.

Fisichella also neatly circumvented the Michelin's initial incipient understeer by staying on his original front tires through his two scheduled refueling stops. Everybody may have been goggle-eyed at the Benetton's pace, but it was proof yet again of that age-old adage: In F1, never – ever – say never"— Alan Henry

facco · 5 Sep 2001, 13:55 (Ref:141776)

Quote:

Originally posted by Blackjack21

The fact of the matter is once again Ralf couldn't get the job done!

DING, DING, DING... Blackjack21 hits the bull's eye

I'll add... As always, he couldn't...

BBKing · 5 Sep 2001, 14:17 (Ref:141796)

Consider the fact that Montoya overtook little bro just before his engine let him down. He was behind little bro thanks to Heidfeld generosity.

Murph · 5 Sep 2001, 15:59 (Ref:141895)

"He was behind little bro thanks to Heidfeld generosity."

I thought Juan Pablo got himself in this position because he stalled before the 2nd formation lap?

"The fact of the matter is once again Ralf couldn't get the job done!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------"DING, DING, DING... Blackjack21 hits the bull's eye
I'll add... As always, he couldn't..."

Since I am old school, it still amazes me that so many posters seem to think that one should support his/her "hero" by not only posting positive views on their said hero, but must attack their heroes "competitors"...... doesn't matter if one supports Michael, Jacques, Juan Pablo, David, Mika, Jean, or Ralf, etc.,.......( in the past it was the same....Ayrton, "Our Nige", "Our Damon", Alain, and so on.....

jimclark posts and observation on Ralf's calmness during the "jackstand debacle" and some of the responses are a little off the wall. I am not a "fan" of either Juan Pablo & Ralf but I respect the talents of both pilots. I am a fan of Frank & Patrick..and all those who work for Williams Engineering....this has been a remarkable year for the team...and with their partnership with BMW and being Michelins front man....I would expect that the team is capable of victory in all 3 remaining GPs....whether it be Ralf adding to his total of 3 or Juan Pablo earning the first of his many.

I will leave you with this...I am an ardent believer in the Taoist statement..."What is, IS"
The Williams-BMW team has practiced extensively during the season.....at one point in the season it was reported that Ralf & Juan Pablo had put in more testing miles than the Mac & Ferrari duo's (I would imagine though that Luca tops them all in milage). Ralf has a decided advantage in qualifying, race wins, and total points....those are facts..... Juan Pablo has come on very strong the past few race weekends with poles in 2 of the past 3 races...that is a fact. Both drivers have been hurt by reliability problems....also a fact. If the Williams-BMW-Michelin package is hot off the mark at Melbourne next March, both drivers will be in contention for the 2002 WDC, possibly as co-favorites along with Michael.........since the key word is "if", then this is an educated (?) guess on my part. The final 3 races of this season should be great to watch..... and the promise of an exciting/competetive 2002 season will keep the juices flowing........ sit back and enjoy......

Murph

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