NASCAR Cup Round 22: The Glen - Finger Lakes 355

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by St00ge

**** YEAH, fell asleep at lap 30 and only just got to watch the rest of it, almost gave up with one lap to go and then it all happened hahha

I know that feeling - then suddenly Andy Petree went "Is... is Kyle Busch slowing? I think he is!", which got my attention!

Then the fun began in earnest

Crazy last lap, having watched it again a couple of times I'm going to go out there and say that in terms of pure racing excitement, for me the Ambrose/Keselowski battle is right up there together with the equally awesome Villeneuve/Arnoux duel at Dijon in 1979. Ah what the hell, give the edge to the barnburner yesterday since they swapped the lead in the final three corners and they were dicing for the victory

Good weekend overall - seeing the The Flip back for the first time in quite a while on Saturday was a nice bonus too.

[FAS33]

awesome race, I thought ambroseo had it in the bag when he overtook 2 cars at the backend of da race at the 1st corner.. but who cares Ambrose won! wohoooo!!! and agreed...More Circuit tracks then Ovals.
Up the #9!

[Razzzor]

I'm no fan of Nascar, but that's is one of the best final laps I've seen racing, that was awesome watching the two of them slide at every corner and constantly running off. Probably better than the Villeneuve/Arnoux duel.

That is kind of the nature of the Nascars though, the big old shopping trollies that they are, and throw in some oil for even more sliding. Nascar could do with more road circuits, but I'm not an oval fan anyway. The regular Nascar fan probably is and probably dislikes non-ovals; hell they'd have to be to sit through 4 hours of oval racing every weekend.

How bout Hornish though - 5th and 3rd in the two races. Not bad for a guy who was never a road specialist in Indycar. Shows he does have a fair bit of skill over some of these other drivers in Nascar.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Hermann Tilke/FIA version of Watkins Glen if F1 had stayed there:
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5608484

It would ****ed Mr. France for sure! There's no way those stock cars can navigate this "course".

[deeks6]

PLEASE Please Please NASCAR ... more road races!!!!!!!!!!! These cars on road circuits are the best entertainment motor sports can offer. Road America, Montreal and Laguna are musts ... also Barber, Lime Rock, Road Atlanta and Mid-Ohio would be great...maybe even the new Texas track. I think the US road circuits are among the best in the world and these cars should be on them.

Sensational duel ... Ambrose Brad and Kyle brilliant. Smoke was entertaining until the big off. Jeff Gordon has just lost it in road races now hasnt he?

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by deeks6

PLEASE Please Please NASCAR ... more road races!!!!!!!!!!! These cars on road circuits are the best entertainment motor sports can offer. Road America, Montreal and Laguna are musts ... also Barber, Lime Rock, Road Atlanta and Mid-Ohio would be great...maybe even the new Texas track. I think the US road circuits are among the best in the world and these cars should be on them.

I agree, but unfortunately most everyone "around me" will emphatically disagree with us. More like yesterday, they may come around

Sensational duel ... Ambrose Brad and Kyle brilliant. Smoke was entertaining until the big off. Jeff Gordon has just lost it in road races now hasnt he?

I don't think it's that Jeff has lost it, as everyone one else has caught up. Yes, Jeff ain't in his prime but the number of drivers/teams that can win on the road courses has increased since his dominating days.

[TrueBlueFlyer]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Part of me wants nascar to oil down every track with 4 to go, especially with Kyle leading and the other part of me is wondering how much oil could be seen and what was reported to nascar and when. I assume it was SCCA marshalls, who normally spot oil pretty quickly. I don't recall seeing any oil flags (does nascar even know what that is?).

Do you think they didn't know about it or do you think they knew and ignored it for show/finish?

Watkins Glen International uses two types of marshals, WGI staff are track employees that get paid to work there during the week and RSI (race services incorporated) which is a separate membership from SCCA though many marshals are part of SCCA whether they come from US or Canada.

For NASCAR we get exactly two flags on all stations, and both of them mean caution. The blue flag is to be waived for local yellow scenario, and yellow flag is waived for full course caution.

From what I saw on station 4 at the top of the Esses, the 47 car was smoking heavily for a couple of laps before 18 went all squirly and got bumped by car 2. That being said watching the replay of the last two laps, the radio would have been buzzing with reports of 4 off's and metal to metal contact had it been a different series other than NASCAR... the results would have been different too as a result, but this was very entertaining for everyone watching.

The Grand Am race Saturday afternoon was just as exciting for anyone wanting to watch it

[IceMan_PJN]

Originally Posted by Matt

listening to the people on this nascar board im on *****ing and moaning about how NASCAR should have thrown a yellow because there was oil on the track is hilarious.

Providing that officials had been aware of the oil, then arguments in favor of a yellow would have been justified since it's NASCAR, which throws cautions for a napkin. If you throw cautions for napkins, you must throw them for oil, or stop throwing trivial cautions. Of course, that's providing that they knew about the oil, which I can't argue to since I haven't got to watch the race yet (not until it reruns on Speed Wednesday).

[gomick]

They say they didn't know the oil was that bad, that's about it... What is the most amount of road courses ever run in 1 season? I would be happy with 6 road courses & 30 oval races... At least put a road course in the chase

[The Original Instag8or]

A couple thoughts:

355K is far too short, if not for yellows the race would have ended within two hours. If the 1.5 mile D shaped tracks deserve weekly four hour races, then the road courses deserve about six hours of racing.

As fun as the oil down made the end of that race due to loss of traction and the need to feather the throttle, why not race road courses in damp conditions? I'm not talking about racing ovals in a Malaysian monsoon. Let Goodyear test out their newest in all weather tread design, as well as their never to be seen on a public road slicks.

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

I agree, but unfortunately most everyone "around me" will emphatically disagree with us. More like yesterday, they may come around



I don't think it's that Jeff has lost it, as everyone one else has caught up. Yes, Jeff ain't in his prime but the number of drivers/teams that can win on the road courses has increased since his dominating days.

Probably true ... guys like Kurt Busch, , Edwards, Kezelowski etc have put much more work into the road races. To my way of thinking, many of the new breed actually like the road courses and maybe the push for more of these races will come from drivers. Only the old school like Mark Martin dont want them (and maybe the establishment) ...

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by The Original Instag8or

A couple thoughts:

355K is far too short, if not for yellows the race would have ended within two hours. If the 1.5 mile D shaped tracks deserve weekly four hour races, then the road courses deserve about six hours of racing.

As fun as the oil down made the end of that race due to loss of traction and the need to feather the throttle, why not race road courses in damp conditions? I'm not talking about racing ovals in a Malaysian monsoon. Let Goodyear test out their newest in all weather tread design, as well as their never to be seen on a public road slicks.

the cars couldn't run to that pace for 4 hours, they are losing brakes after 2 hrs. Oval tracks are far less punishing on the cars (other than the engine constantly high reving), unless they get wrecked obviously.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by deeks6

Probably true ... guys like Kurt Busch, , Edwards, Kezelowski etc have put much more work into the road races. To my way of thinking, many of the new breed actually like the road courses and maybe the push for more of these races will come from drivers. Only the old school like Mark Martin dont want them (and maybe the establishment) ...

I think teams are taking advantage of the Road Atlanta and VIR tests more now than the past. Perhaps the old school/establishment drivers don't like it, but the guy pictured to the left found victory lane the first time in Cup at Riverside. All those nights running through the North Georgia Mountains may have helped out.

In all seriousness, I think Mark Martin was OK with them in the past, but it is hard for old men to throw 3400 lb stockcar around for these races.

Road Course Wins: All-Time
Driver, Wins
Jeff Gordon, 9*
Tony Stewart, 7*
Rusty Wallace, 6
Bobby Allison, 6
Richard Petty, 6
Ricky Rudd, 6
Darrell Waltrip, 5
Tim Richmond, 5
Dan Gurney, 5
David Pearson, 4
Mark Martin, 4*
Ernie Irvan, 3
Geoff Bodine, 3
Tim Flock, 3
Cale Yarborough, 3
Marcos Ambrose, 2
* active
(8-12-2012)

Courtesy of Jayski

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by gomick

What is the most amount of road courses ever run in 1 season? I would be happy with 6 road courses & 30 oval races... At least put a road course in the chase

4 in 1963 (Augusta, Bridgehampton, Riverside, and Watkins Glen)-they ran a total of 64 races that year.

1981 they actually ran 3 times at Riverside.
1986 & 1987 they ran twice at Riverside, and once at The Glen
For years the last race of the year was at Riverside and for at least 8 years, they had two races a year at Riverside, which was the only road course on the calender.
The Cup/GN series first ran at The Glen back in the 50s/60s but didn't return until 1986.
1989 is when the Sonoma/Glen scheduling started that has lasted until today. Time for a change?

According to a list on Wikipedia and another random site, these are the road courses where the Cup Series/Grand National Series held POINTS races:
Augusta International Raceway
Beach and Road Course-Daytona (doesn't really count now does it?)
Bridgehampton
Linden Airport-New Jersey
Montgomery Airport-Montgomery NY
Riverside
Road America
Sonoma
Titusville-Cocoa Airport-FLA
Watkins Glen
Willow Springs

Only 4 of the above still really exist

All that said, I don't think we'll ever see more than two road races. I think it would behoove NASCAR to add a road course to the Chase, along with a Super Speedway, short tracks, an intermediate oval, a 2 mile oval and a flat track; it just makes sense, so NASCAR won't do it.

Adding a road course won't help Taz enough, tho.

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Road Course Wins: All-Time
Driver, Wins
Jeff Gordon, 9*
Tony Stewart, 7*
Rusty Wallace, 6
Bobby Allison, 6
Richard Petty, 6
Ricky Rudd, 6
Darrell Waltrip, 5
Tim Richmond, 5
Dan Gurney, 5
David Pearson, 4
Mark Martin, 4*
Ernie Irvan, 3
Geoff Bodine, 3
Tim Flock, 3
Cale Yarborough, 3
Marcos Ambrose, 2
* active
(8-12-2012)
Courtesy of Jayski

Ambrose is no longer "Active"?? Something the public aren't aware of Jayski?

[The Original Instag8or]

Originally Posted by Axeman444

the cars couldn't run to that pace for 4 hours, they are losing brakes after 2 hrs. Oval tracks are far less punishing on the cars (other than the engine constantly high reving), unless they get wrecked obviously.

Yet they did 500 MILES at Riverside back in the 1960s and 70s, before they raced on disc brakes. Are you going to say that 1960s drum brakes were somehow superior to modern racing discs?

[St00ge]

Originally Posted by The Original Instag8or

Yet they did 500 MILES at Riverside back in the 1960s and 70s, before they raced on disc brakes. Are you going to say that 1960s drum brakes were somehow superior to modern racing discs?

Last time I checked it was 2012

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by The Original Instag8or

Yet they did 500 MILES at Riverside back in the 1960s and 70s, before they raced on disc brakes. Are you going to say that 1960s drum brakes were somehow superior to modern racing discs?

that's hilarious. how many times have you heard a driver say something along the lines of "I tried to catch him at the end but i'd used the car up"?????

i've heard it plenty, and from Marcos Ambrose at, Watkins Glen. So i'd believe that more

[FAS33]

[QUOTE=The Original Instag8or;3119872]A couple thoughts:

355K is far too short, if not for yellows the race would have ended within two hours. QUOTE]

they would blow up if they went any longer

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Axeman444

Ambrose is no longer "Active"?? Something the public aren't aware of Jayski?

Cut the man some slack. He had it updated in less than 48 hours. Geez, he forgot the *.

[NaBUru38]

2:30 seems fine to me. With longer actions, drivers get more cautious. (Except in ALMS, I know )

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by TrueBlueFlyer

Watkins Glen International uses two types of marshals, WGI staff are track employees that get paid to work there during the week and RSI (race services incorporated) which is a separate membership from SCCA though many marshals are part of SCCA whether they come from US or Canada.

For NASCAR we get exactly two flags on all stations, and both of them mean caution. The blue flag is to be waived for local yellow scenario, and yellow flag is waived for full course caution.

From what I saw on station 4 at the top of the Esses, the 47 car was smoking heavily for a couple of laps before 18 went all squirly and got bumped by car 2. That being said watching the replay of the last two laps, the radio would have been buzzing with reports of 4 off's and metal to metal contact had it been a different series other than NASCAR... the results would have been different too as a result, but this was very entertaining for everyone watching.

The Grand Am race Saturday afternoon was just as exciting for anyone wanting to watch it

I read this the other day, but forgot to thank you for this info, so thank you.

I find it rather ridiculous that nascar can't grasp that "things are different" for road racing. In their defense, they got it right on Sunday and all drivers still on course at the end didn't need an oil flag to know there was oil down.

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Cut the man some slack. He had it updated in less than 48 hours. Geez, he forgot the *.

no! i want my free information to be available from people who don't receive anything for their trouble to be totally accurate and available within 1 millisecond of the information being available and without having to search or it

[TrueBlueFlyer]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

they got it right on Sunday and all drivers still on course at the end didn't need an oil flag to know there was oil down.

you make it sound like there was oil everywhere...

there was no oil by my station at the top of the esses, none of the cars were sliding around as they went full noise past us... the majority of the oil seemed to have dropped before the uphill where there was a hard braking turn followed by elevation change

[Matt]

Originally Posted by TrueBlueFlyer

you make it sound like there was oil everywhere...

there was no oil by my station at the top of the esses, none of the cars were sliding around as they went full noise past us... the majority of the oil seemed to have dropped before the uphill where there was a hard braking turn followed by elevation change

there was oil outside of T1, at the top of the esses, through the inner loop, and the carousel, and in the two last corners as well.