What's the point of cutting the wing....

Bramzel · 3 May 2005, 14:44 (Ref:1292062)

... if you allow sidewings like these huge flaps?

Was in Magny this weekend and noticed them on all MC12's. Also had a quick chat with Stephen Stokoe from GNM about the amputated Saleen wings, and he was also complaining about those MC12 wings. If only they would turn back the rules for the S7R they would be able to run at the front again, in both ALMS and LMES/FIAGT. Hopefully the ACO will see that soon, though I ain't hoping for it. Otherwise maybe Konrad/GNM/ACEMCO/etc. might want to add whaletails on the S7R's like the MC12's do as well

SALEEN S7R · 3 May 2005, 14:51 (Ref:1292064)

The Maseratis have had whaletails since the start of the year at Monza. I beleive they are part of the cars bodywork, simple as that. http://www.fiagt.com/gallerypic.php?...n=2005&event=1

Bramzel · 3 May 2005, 15:03 (Ref:1292080)

I know they had them, but why allow them? You can integrate anything as "part of the bodywork" but with a couple of them you could triple the downforce.

SALEEN S7R · 3 May 2005, 15:08 (Ref:1292083)

Whats ur problem? It is part of the cars bodywork, providing these whaletails appear on the homlogated road version of the car they are perfectly legal in every way.

ss_collins · 3 May 2005, 15:23 (Ref:1292091)

The Maserati is just a problem

**Adam43** · 3 May 2005, 15:32 (Ref:1292101)

If they are just clipping that to bring the car down to a competetive pace then it doesn't matter as they will be playing with the relative pace.

I doubt the flip up is as effecient as the rear wing. If they didn't have it then they would probably be allowed a wider rear wing, which would be more effecient. While this would make a difference to the ultimate pace (as I said it is tuned relatively anyway) it may make a difference with fuel economy. Although maybe this is considered in the tuning.

TheNewBob · 3 May 2005, 20:19 (Ref:1292306)

If nothing else at least Maserati know how to get us all talking! Is it not possible that they did this as part of the bodywork to get as good a performance as any regulations might allow? It can't make that much difference, otherwise they would have been cut when they did the wing sizes. This is despite the MC12 being so aerodynamically superior to most others on the track....

JAG · 4 May 2005, 17:24 (Ref:1293004)

You will find all of the homologation specials, dating back to the mid 90's, have these long tails and 'flip-up' rear spoilers.

The 1996 911 GT1 was the first car in the modern era to have it as a feature. You will notice in the pre-publicity pictures this long tail was not fitted.

EliseGT1 · 4 May 2005, 17:40 (Ref:1293024)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Whats ur problem? It is part of the cars bodywork, providing these whaletails appear on the homlogated road version of the car they are perfectly legal in every way.

Excuse me SaleenS7R, but I think you just made 3 little mistakes:

1. So everything that's "already attached to the bodywork" is legal ?
2. Have you (for example) ever seen a Ferrari 550 Road car that even remotely looks like a racing 550? The fact that a car is homologated doesn't say the car has the exact same body at all. The body of a racing 550 is much, much wider.
3. Although the roadgoing version of the MC12 has the same wing base at the end, the wing on top of the road car is totally different from the racing wing.

**Adam43** · 4 May 2005, 18:09 (Ref:1293056)

The (main) rear wing cut has taken that into account by the very definition of why they did it (to bring the performance down to the other cars). If that flip up wing wasn't there then the main wing cut would have been different.

nsxr · 6 May 2005, 04:05 (Ref:1294118)

why havent gt teams gone with the deep end plates like the protos. In the case of the saleen and mazza with the short wings it would be a benefit. Are the rules written in such a way to ban this type of modification? just a thought

sportscarsRULE · 6 May 2005, 04:29 (Ref:1294125)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nsxr

why havent gt teams gone with the deep end plates like the protos. In the case of the saleen and mazza with the short wings it would be a benefit. Are the rules written in such a way to ban this type of modification? just a thought

I think so because the 360 GTC was designed with dep end plates but didn't run with them in A.C.O. competition. However, this could just be for GT2.

Bramzel · 14 May 2005, 20:34 (Ref:1300958)

http://www.planetlemans.com/index.ph...d=952&Itemid=2

Well, ACEMCO is set free. 1 done, 2x GNM / 2x Konrad / 1x RAM to go.

SALEEN S7R · 14 May 2005, 20:47 (Ref:1300961)

Just a shame that the rules need to be differnt to make the Saleen competitve. Id much rather keep things the way they are, 1 set of rules. Not 1 set of rules for 1 car and 1 for another.

marcel82 · 14 May 2005, 21:00 (Ref:1300963)

weren't the rules adjusted to slow down the Saleens in the first place?

SALEEN S7R · 14 May 2005, 21:22 (Ref:1300971)

Yes, but that was a homlogation issue. Nothing to do with the cars performance.

cmk · 14 May 2005, 22:03 (Ref:1300981)

It is a shame indeed that the rules need be manipulated, but in the final analysis the thing I most want to see as a spectator is good, competitive racing between different car types. If the adjustments from the rules (Saleen up, Maserati down) are necessary to provide this end result, I will accept them.

As a "one set of rules" point of discussion, has it ever been determined why the Reiter car is allowed such a large wing in FIA competition this year? The wing seems similar in dimension to last year's FIA wing, broader than the windscreen is, and significantly wider than the wing run by Dick Barbour in ACO spec last year.

SALEEN S7R · 14 May 2005, 22:09 (Ref:1300984)

In answer to the Reiter question, the rear wing has been made signifcantly better to make the car more competitve, simple as that. In the ALMS its a differnt governing body for the regulations, the FIA and IMSA just did things a little differntly I think, that is the only reason there is a differnce. I think.

Bramzel · 14 May 2005, 22:28 (Ref:1300991)

Isn't it so that the ACO has a certain max width for the rearwing, while FIAGT sais max width = max width of the car? Last year FIAGT was 2m, but I lost sight of all the different rules I must say.

cmk · 14 May 2005, 22:55 (Ref:1301001)

Supposedly the two rule-sets are equivalent this year and based on the width of the windscreen rather than on the width of the car as the FIA rules last year stipulated, hence the loss of the huge wings on the FIA cars this year. The new Saleen wing conforms to that spec, and the ACO probably should've been enforcing the narrower wing last year. Why they did not is anyone's guess.

My question over the Reiter wing is why it is allowable and yet the Saleens (clearly having their performance negatively affected) are not given a similar exception. That to me is dodgy. I wonder whether Dick Barbour could've got a bigger wing allowed for his ALMS Lambos? IMSA seems far more willing than any other homologation body to bend the rules for the fans. For better or for worse, this makes for a great show.

SALEEN S7R · 14 May 2005, 23:06 (Ref:1301008)

Yes that was the case Bramzel, but now the FIA GT series has adopted ACO rules too.

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