2007 BTCC regs announced

redshoes · 2 Oct 2006, 12:29 (Ref:1725242)

http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=316

BTC-T cars can score points but not eligable to win Drivers' / Manufacturers' title (does this mean that the champion may not necessarily be the highest points scorer?)

- The base weights of all S2000 cars will increase by 30kgs to bring them in line with FIA regulations.
- All BTC-T cars’ base weights will also increase by a similar amount to maintain the weight differential between the two types of cars.
- Individual BTC-T cars/drivers may be subject to additional weight penalties during the course of the season, dependent on their outright performances.
- Entrants running BTC-T cars will still be eligible for the Independents Trophy’s Drivers’ and Teams’ titles.
- Only an independent team's highest-finishing car in each race will score points towards the Independents Trophy’s Teams’ championship.

**touringlegend** · 2 Oct 2006, 12:39 (Ref:1725259)

I'm a bit dissapointed that the BTC-T cars won't be handicapped as was originally talked about. Making a clean break should be all about that, instead we're left with a funny sort of arrangment that if they do too well then they'll be penalised.

Agree with the Independants changes for 2007 to allow single car entry's more of a crack at prizes and points.

touring fan01 · 2 Oct 2006, 12:46 (Ref:1725269)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touringlegend

I'm a bit dissapointed that the BTC-T cars won't be handicapped as was originally talked about. Making a clean break should be all about that, instead we're left with a funny sort of arrangment that if they do too well then they'll be penalised.

Agree with the Independants changes for 2007 to allow single car entry's more of a crack at prizes and points.

i think they did the smartest thing.
why penalise cars that dont need it? why give some more weight to those at the back of the grid? it will only put off the smaller teams from entering the btcc with BTC-T cars.

as alan gow said on his forum those cars are not going to be developed any more so they will naturally slide down the order anyway and if someone is too fast somewhere in one of the old cars then they will be handicapped. thats the fairest way to do it I think.
http://www.btcc.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3674

Lord X · 2 Oct 2006, 17:02 (Ref:1725445)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=316

BTC-T cars can score points but not eligable to win Drivers' / Manufacturers' title (does this mean that the champion may not necessarily be the highest points scorer?)

Very much doubt that as the top teams/drivers will be in S2000 machinery and as Alan Gow points out any BTC-T car 'over achieving' will be penalised thereafter so I doubt they'd be able to keep up over the course of the season in any case.

I agree with touring fan 01. This is the fairest way to do it.

**FIRE** · 2 Oct 2006, 17:52 (Ref:1725483)

I think this is the best possible compromise.

The big teams like SEAT, Vauxhall and (I have no doubt) Dynamics will have S2000 cars. Don't know about WSR (Chevrolet?). Need their cars (builded 2004?) no replacement to stay competative?

Because of the current state of BTCC we cannot expect from privateers to switch to S2000. And if these BTC-T cars get to competative they can be restricted.

Hazard · 2 Oct 2006, 18:16 (Ref:1725498)

I think from an average joe point of view, it's going to be a little weird having say a Dynamics Integra run round and win all the races, yet it's the Seat's and Vauxhall's behind that are actually 'advancing' in the championship.

Hypothetically speaking of course.

In that hypothesis, effectively we're saying that only Seat and Vauxhall can win the drivers trophy (as current with manufacturers) if they are the only competitive teams to field S2000 machinery next season.

Though I don't believe this would be an issue if WSR & Dynamics were switching to S2000 cars as well....maybe there's a promise/belief that this is the case?

**touringlegend** · 2 Oct 2006, 18:18 (Ref:1725499)

Well the only way the likes of Dynamics / WSR will win the championship is by using S2000 machinery - and I guess their sponsors would like to be in with a shout of it.

It's also promising the likes of Motorbase have already bought two Toledo's for next season.

Hazard · 2 Oct 2006, 18:24 (Ref:1725507)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Well the only way the likes of Dynamics / WSR will win the championship is by using S2000 machinery - and I guess their sponsors would like to be in with a shout of it.

It's also promising the likes of Motorbase have already bought two Toledo's for next season.

Yeah, but...

Would you rather 'win' the championship, but risk not winning it by racing round in some second hand set of BMW/Chevy hand-me-downs from the WTCC against current works developed machinery by Seat & Vauxhall...

OR

Win all the races, stand on the podium, spray the champagne, be called the winner etc. in your competitively matched BTCC cars (not forgetting the weight differential is the same comparitively), even though not picking up the points for being a non-conformist pain in the rear?

I'd personally think the latter IF there wasn't that very important little bit that says

Quote:

- Individual BTC-T cars/drivers may be subject to additional weight penalties during the course of the season, dependent on their outright performances.

Which kind of says that's not going to happen.

touring fan01 · 2 Oct 2006, 18:24 (Ref:1725508)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

I think from an average joe point of view, it's going to be a little weird having say a Dynamics Integra run round and win all the races, yet it's the Seat's and Vauxhall's behind that are actually 'advancing' in the championship.

Hypothetically speaking of course.

that won't happen because a quick BTC spec car that is outperforming the top S2000 cars would get a performance penalty.
i think they have done a good job with the rules.

Hazard · 2 Oct 2006, 18:27 (Ref:1725517)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touring fan01

with respect, i think you have completely missed the point.
that won't happen because a quick BTC spec car that is outperforming the top S2000 cars would get a performance penalty.

No I haven't...

see my last post.

Anyway, I can point at a few championships where one cars been penalised to 'equalise' things and it hasn't worked. Though penalising a car so it can't win is probably a bit of a new one (outside of Renault in F1

)

touring fan01 · 2 Oct 2006, 18:29 (Ref:1725521)

(my post went up the same time as your second one...so I edited.)

they don't say they won't ever allow a BTC-spec car to win, but just not regularly which is fair enough.

redshoes · 2 Oct 2006, 18:33 (Ref:1725527)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touringlegend

I'm a bit dissapointed that the BTC-T cars won't be handicapped as was originally talked about.

I'm not sure any more of a handicap is required. Now that any titles will be out of reach for BTC-T cars is there any doubt that Vauxhall will be an S2000 car. I would be very surprised if Dynamics continued with the current Integra. WSR is a bit of a question mark, but after that who do we have left running BTC-T machinery. Aside from maybe Jordan, no-one who this year has challenged for a race win, or looks likely to next year. There's no point in further handicapping cars that will be midfield at best.

Arguably in the right hands a BTC-T car could still be a regular podium visitor but anyone who is that seriously chasing championship points will be in a S2000 car anyhow. The ability to handicap individual cars/drivers will deal with that anyhow.

If you do handicap all BTC-T cars where do you set the limit? The likes of Marsh are already off the pace, giving him the same level of handicap as you would for say Jordan would be far too much. Realistically I recon we'll have around half a dozen BTC-T cars next year, all driven by people who are happy just to be roughly on the pace.

redshoes · 2 Oct 2006, 18:38 (Ref:1725531)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

Yeah, but...

Would you rather 'win' the championship
OR
Win all the races

Let's see..
"Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce Bob Hazard, 2007 BTCC Champion"
or
"Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce Bob Hazard, race winner"

no contest

Hazard · 2 Oct 2006, 18:57 (Ref:1725556)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

Let's see..
"Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce Bob Hazard, 2007 BTCC Champion"
or
"Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce Bob Hazard, race winner"

no contest

I shall continue to nitpick

Bob Hazard, winner of 30 races in the 2007 BTCC and Independants champion...I think many PR teams can work with that

But seriously, I get your point.

Bob

redshoes · 3 Oct 2006, 03:48 (Ref:1725884)

As you correctly said, the new regs mean that TOCA would step in long before you got close to 30 wins. Even without that, the BTC-T doesn't hold as much as a performance advantage as you think. Take this year's results, best BTC-T car (Neal's Integra) vs the best S2000 (Plato's SEAT). Neal may be leading the championship but it's actually the S2000 car that has scored more race wins. Incidently, to prove my point and assuming nothing changes at Silverstone, 12 months now who are you likely to remember, the guy with the most race wins or the guy who wins the championship.

For an independent to come in and win even half the races, let alone all 30, in a year old car is going to take an extraoridinarily tallented driver, plus the backup of an experienced team which in turn means a sizable budget. If you really had that much tallent why would you put yourself in a position where you couldn't win the title. If you were good enough to win all 30 races in a car that doesn't offer a significant performance advantage then you are just as likely to lift the title in even a second rate S2000 car.

andy_b · 5 Oct 2006, 06:09 (Ref:1728401)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

I shall continue to nitpick

Bob Hazard, winner of 30 races in the 2007 BTCC and Independants champion...I think many PR teams can work with that

But seriously, I get your point.

Bob

a godd marketing team would give Bob Hazard the unofficial title of BTC-T Champion

Andy Metcalf · 6 Oct 2006, 13:45 (Ref:1729976)

A more even playing field is going to be good for the formula, and may encourage more entries, even more manufacturers.

BootsOntheSide · 6 Oct 2006, 14:29 (Ref:1730003)

The equalisation system is somethign of a grewy area, which is strange as TOCA must have a rough idea of how WTCC cars compare to BTCC, and the change in weights will have little effect. Equivalency formulae are difficult to run, and the whole idea was to remove that grey area for potential WTCC-spec teams (especially works ones) next year. I'm not sure how well this will work.

outflat · 6 Oct 2006, 14:33 (Ref:1730005)

I don't think it's about an equivalency formula, so much, BootsOntheSide.

Such things are difficult to run.

The new rules are about ensuring the BTCT spec is slower than WTCC, which is somewhat easier to achieve.

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