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8 Jul 2004, 12:53 (Ref:1030222)
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Racer
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 135
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Is it better now or in 1996
Over the last few months i have just being thinking how big the series has got since 1996 when i first went to a ATCC round at Barbagallo at the age of 12.
On that day at Barbagallo me and the family had plenty of room to move around the track and the meeting was only reasonably attended Since that day a man named Tony Cochrane came along and made the series into what it is today with multiple world class events. I see lots of letters in AA recently about people whinging about where the series is headed and so forth So the question is to the touring car purists, are u more happier now or in 1996??? Last edited by Woody75; 8 Jul 2004 at 12:58. |
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The CSA Alloy Wheels National Saloon Car Series Final Round Phillip Island November 27th 
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8 Jul 2004, 13:06 (Ref:1030244)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,622
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In 1985 I was trying to get a deal together to drive a touring car.
In 1995 I was racing in the support races for the touring cars. In 2004 I don't watch many touring car races and I don't support any teams or drivers. |
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8 Jul 2004, 13:32 (Ref:1030274)
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#3 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,387
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In 1995 it was Motorsport. In 2004 it's Sports Entertainment.
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Life is all about Ass. You're either covering it, kissing it, kicking it, laughing it off, busting it or trying to get a piece of it.
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8 Jul 2004, 20:46 (Ref:1030654)
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Racer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 179
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No. Larry is still in it.
Last edited by Trevor P; 8 Jul 2004 at 20:47. |
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8 Jul 2004, 21:47 (Ref:1030705)
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#5 | |
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Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
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Nothing's ever as good as people think it used to be...
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9 Jul 2004, 00:12 (Ref:1030821)
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#6 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,040
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In 1996 categories actually got along with eachother, they weren't trying to put eachother out of business.......
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"The Great Race" 22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999
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9 Jul 2004, 00:36 (Ref:1030834)
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#7 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 414
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I would have thought TOCA was trying to do the same thing that racer69 refers to, back in 1996, to TEGA. The depth of competition has considerably increased since 1996. Who would have thought we would have seen the Stone Brothers win the championship in 2003. After all, at that stage, DJR and GSR had an established duopoly among the Ford teams.
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Glenn Seton and Danica Patrick fan!
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9 Jul 2004, 03:06 (Ref:1030905)
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#8 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,200
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It's better now.
Prior to '96 it was mostly owner-drivers, now most are hired, and mostly young, drivers. It's more professional, better facilities, consistently bigger fields, teams are better matched, more revenue coming in to support the teams, and more importantly more non-auto based revenue (ie, Bigpond, Playstation, Orrcon, Kmart, Fujitsu, CAT, Betta Electrical, etc) And yes, I know Betta were in it back then, but not as big an investment. But we now have Cochrane. Still, it's never perfect |
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9 Jul 2004, 03:24 (Ref:1030909)
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#9 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 790
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well as a lowndes fan :-)
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9 Jul 2004, 07:27 (Ref:1031012)
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#10 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 650
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I think that things have changed for the better, to make the sport successful than you need bums on seats. Changing the formula to create a successful sport is great, and really they have only re-invented the old rivalry that has existed since the inception of touring car racing in Australia.
Anyway when and if it all goes pear shaped at least I will be able to do what my grand father does "I remember when racing was racing....." |
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Quirky Dirk!
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9 Jul 2004, 09:58 (Ref:1031100)
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#11 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,370
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If you think back even further- how about 1993 or 1986? It is more for the sports fans and less for the "purists" these days but those of us who can remember back then (or earlier) can still make our own fun out of it. I don't recall such as the VB Challenge and the Donut King burnout/drifting routines as part of the show back then, but hey, I was "entertained" nonetheless.
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Holden- How One Legendary Driver Earned Nine Permanent circuits- the life blood of motorsport
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9 Jul 2004, 11:39 (Ref:1031197)
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#12 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 650
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One of the highligts for me in the early years of the V8 Supercars was the Privateer dash for cash, those boys really turned it on!
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Quirky Dirk!
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9 Jul 2004, 11:46 (Ref:1031207)
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#13 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,387
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Mattracer, At the old Surfers track there used to be plenty of women in the crowd to keep me occupied between races. I wouldn't have seen anything else anyway.
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Life is all about Ass. You're either covering it, kissing it, kicking it, laughing it off, busting it or trying to get a piece of it.
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9 Jul 2004, 12:03 (Ref:1031218)
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#14 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 498
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for me it was a sad day when the BMW M3 were no longer allowed to run....along with the other Group A cars...I dont go to the taxis as much as I once did prefer Procar now....I like to see different makes.
All in all I will still go to Winton or PI if it was on. Sandown is not far from home...remember the perkins Longhurst battle in the wet some years ago that was great.. Also remember the hang ten 500 on the old Sandown track with the Gemini country dealer team and VW golf heck even triumph dolimites |
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9 Jul 2004, 12:29 (Ref:1031249)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,366
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The problem is that in the olden days it was enjoyable, you could meander through the pits at the local race track and talk to a driver/team owner.
But costs have increased and in the competitive market that is sports entertainment so has the whole series. In fact the series is defined by the all mighty dollar - so that I can watch big dollar drivers being paid their worth in big dollar cars for big dollar sponsors on free to air TV. That sounds OK for me, but I miss personal experience. |
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I am grateful that I am not as judgemental as all those censorious, self-righteous people around me.
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9 Jul 2004, 13:51 (Ref:1031316)
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#16 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 2,725
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In 1996 the series had just received the biggest shot in the arm in years when the man who turned 1994 Bathurst on its head swept all before him in his debut year, setting up the Brock like following the young Craig Lowndes would acquire.
The following year saw record crowds at most of the established circuits which the newly formed AVESCO crowed long and hard about, although it was the Brock retirement tour which brought the numbers out. Prior to 1996 it had been a continuation of the Group A days, with Johnsons, Gibsons, Setons as the premier teams with HRT waving the Hard Luck banner they always seemd to have but kept acquiring wins anyway. The series changed forever in 1996/97, but a lot of those changes were incidental to the arrival of AVESCO. Lowndes heralded the transition to young paid drivers and Brock's retirement signaled the end of the owner driver. The series had just gone to three races per meeting as had their first (non-championship) visit to New Zealand, which despite being one of AVESCO's earliest desires, would take years to return. They had begun to experiment with the Gold Coast Indy, adding street circuits to the program. So AVESCOs earliest memorable moments that were purely theirs were the stoushes with TOCA, Bathurst City Council and the ARDC, and the beginnings of establishing financial freedom for the category and its teams. Apart from Lowndes, the hot newcomers included Greg Murphy, Russell Ingall and Paul Romano, Steven Richards, John Faulkner and Max Dumesny with Steven Johnson and Steven Ellery showing promise on occasions when given opportunity, while Mark Larkham, Cameron McConville, and Mark Poole were struggling to establish themselves after dazzling open wheel carreers while Brad Jones, Paul Morris, Jim Richards and Cameron McLean were in the 'other' camp and Bathurst was taking a step back from the brink after Bathurst '95 featured a dismally small entry. Last edited by Falcadore; 9 Jul 2004 at 13:56. |
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Mark Alan Jones Opinionated Human My opinions only have the power you give them
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9 Jul 2004, 20:57 (Ref:1031712)
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#17 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 540
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Its no longer sport . Its dumbed down entertainment for the dumbed down masses .
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10 Jul 2004, 03:50 (Ref:1031908)
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#18 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 135
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I have to admit in 1996 like a few other people have said it was all about the racing, but all the new teams and drivers have something for us fans to follow closely when they aint racing
In the owner/driver days there wasnt much news on driver pairings and the silly season never existed |
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__________________
The CSA Alloy Wheels National Saloon Car Series Final Round Phillip Island November 27th
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10 Jul 2004, 04:15 (Ref:1031919)
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#19 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 16,040
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give me modern racing over 96 any day
much more enjoyment at racing today, more tv, more merchandise and better more professional racing |
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10 Jul 2004, 04:55 (Ref:1031933)
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#20 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,885
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It's better today no doubt
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Wolverines!
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10 Jul 2004, 05:27 (Ref:1031944)
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#21 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 910
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The proof in the pudding can be shown when you compare todays calendar to 1996. The circus now goes to every state in Australia, plus in New Zealand.
Also another important note is the quality and depth of the competition is much better.... Take this 1996 Barbagallo entry list for example, compared to the recent 2004 event. 1996: BOWE SKAIFE GARDNER BROCK INGALL LARKHAM PERKINS LOWNDES D JOHNSON SETON JONES LONGHURST ELLERY S RICHARDS ROMANO SLAKO G JOHNSON CRICK WALKER GIORGI WALDOCK McLEOD 2004: AMBROSE SKAIFE J RICHARDS SETON LOWNDES LONGHURST DUMBRELL INGALL BARGWANNA S RICHARDS BOWE R KELLY WEEL JOHNSON LUFF WINTERBOTTOM JONES T KELLY BESNARD MORRIS ELLERY McCONVILLE TANDER WILLS BREDE NOSKE BRIGHT MURPHY TRATT RADISICH BAIRD WILSON Add this to the crowd attendances, more exciting events, massive sponsorship, and the fact we also have an equally colourful division 2 category filling out 30 odd grid spaces, and you can see the huge difference from Pre-AVESCO to today. Today the industry is alot healthier... |
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Razors Edge Events - Home of the Speed Demons Cup! 16 Managers, 15 Events. 1 Champion!
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10 Jul 2004, 05:43 (Ref:1031946)
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#22 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,375
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Of course, back in '96, Timu was in an HRT jumpsuit, waiting for his next nappy change, and speaking his first word...."Skaifey"
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Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car.
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10 Jul 2004, 06:28 (Ref:1031956)
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#23 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 2,725
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Skaifey wasn't a HRT driver in '96 though. Skaife and HRT was still 18 months away as the series kicked off at the Creek in 96.
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__________________
Mark Alan Jones Opinionated Human My opinions only have the power you give them
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10 Jul 2004, 06:35 (Ref:1031958)
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#24 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,375
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Don't you got to love those 'ken stastical fanatics!
 Ok ok ok, Timu was in a Sonic The Hedgehog jumpsuit so bite me
Last edited by Just Do It!; 10 Jul 2004 at 06:39. |
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Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car.
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10 Jul 2004, 06:47 (Ref:1031963)
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#25 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 2,725
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Quote:
Although it has been consistently proven that crowd attendance figures are incredibly dodgy and should be taken not with a grain, but a baulk carrier of salt. A lot of big assumptions are made in calculating attendances, and the figures are not auditted. The number of street circuits added in more recent times has blown out attendances, but those events crowd figures are even dodgier than permanent circuits. More exciting events? well we can discuss the merits of replacing racing categories with motorcycle stunt shows and the VB Challenge in another thread, but I think my thoughts are well and truly on record over this. As for calendar.... 1996 - 16 events in 6 states + 2 overseas Eastern Creek, NSW Sandown, Vic Mount Panorama, NSW Albert Park, Vic Symmons Plains, Tas Surfers Paradise, Qld Phillip ISland, Vic Calder Park, Vic Lakeside, Qld Barbagallo, WA Mallala, SA Oran Park, NSW Sandown, Vic Mount Panorama, NSW Pukekohe, NZ Wellington, NZ 2004 - 14 events in 7 states with 1 overseas Albert Park, Vic Adelaide, SA Eastern Creek, NSW Pukekohe, NZ Hidden Valley, NT Barbgallo, WA Queensland Raceway, Qld Winton, Vic Oran Park, NSW Sandown, Vic Mount Panorama, NSW Surfers Paradise, Qld Symmons Plains, Tas Eastern Creek, NSW Well since 1996, the calendar has been shortened by two events, one of them the second New Zealand event, one of Sandowns races has gone, but Eastern Creek now has a second. Winton has replaced Calder, Adelaide replaced Mallala, Queensland Raceway replaced Lakeside, Mount Panorama has lost its second, Hidden Valley has arrived at Phillip Island is gone. Is it really that different? |
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Mark Alan Jones Opinionated Human My opinions only have the power you give them
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