2010 Le Mans Intercontinental Cup

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

1. A disincentive for Audi.
2. Must adhere to ACO rules fully at these races, so anyone else who isn't going to build a diesel.

Look, I know you're better informed than me regarding potential ALMS entries (or lack of them), but even without the inception of the LMIC, Audi were surely never in the frame to be full season participants in the 2010 ALMS.

I also (very much) doubt that there's so much as a single 'other' potential 2010 ALMS entrant who, upon hearing that the 2010 PLM would be a round of the inaugural LMIC, decided that, on reflection, the ALMS is now not for me/us.

To me, its impact on the 2010 ALMS will be one of neutrality, neither enhancing, nor detracting, in terms of entries and funding. It hasn't been said, and I may have misunderstood, but I sense there's an underlying suggestion from some, that the current unfortunate state of the ALMS is in some way related to the inception of the LMIC, rather than the global economy.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

It hasn't been said, and I may have misunderstood, but I sense there's an underlying suggestion from some, that the current unfortunate state of the ALMS is in some way related to the inception of the LMIC, rather than the global economy.

If that is the impression I have given, than I apologize, as it isn't my intent. This series is too new to have prevented any current entries. To clarify my position, I am talking about what might be the potential future effects. Ultimately, the strength of a business shouldn't be solely placed on the global economy either though, at least in my opinion.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

If that is the impression I have given, than I apologize, as it isn't my intent. This series is too new to have prevented any current entries. To clarify my position, I am talking about what might be the potential future effects. Ultimately, the strength of a business shouldn't be solely placed on the global economy either though, at least in my opinion.

No need to apologise!

In general, I would agree with you. However, I'm simply not convinced that the existence of the LMIC (or whatever they choose to call it in the future) will ultimately be to the detriment of the ALMS (or the LMS, for that matter).

[pablocomics]

I don´t think like you, without the ICLM, Peugeot or Audi wouldn´t be on LMS or ALMS races this year (mostly Audi), their partial presence gives more streng to both championships.

We´ll have about 6 races next year, if the ACO makes mandatory for the teams run in 8 or 9 races the regional championships won´t loose anything

BTW, There are more teams confirmoed for the international series?

[SebringMG]

While i think it can be thought of that the ICLM trophy is a disincentive for Audi to compete in the full ALMS how likely was it that they would turn up anyway?

imo they don't have the budget for a full season so at best they would drop in and out for the more important races (sebring, PLM and maybe one or two others).

The problem for Audi is the lack of a US racing team to run their operations with Champion going under / closing. It costs too much for Joest to come over for a full season now so the decision was made to restrict it to Euro races where mobilisation is cheaper and the ICLM where part costs may be paid. Simple really - best use of a smaller budget than past years.

[Mal]

I thinks the arrival of LMIC means that Audi and Hopefully Pug will do more races than they would otherwise have done.

If this is increased to six races, plus LM plus some qualification races for 2011 then all the better.

There is an interview on Endurance info where it says that in 2011 Sebring will be part of the LMIC - it will what many have been waiting for a global championship built around the classic races - it will hopefully finally attract some more manufacturers

[NaBUru38]

Rémy Brouard, ACO's "Directeur Général" (I can't translate that) was interviewed in Endurance-Info:

- Why isn't Sebring port of the 2010 Le Mans Intercontinental Cup?
- It was really too late. A program like it can't be ready in two months. The first attempt [to include it in the cup] is in 2011's scope.

- How many entries do you expect?
- It's not our goal to have a fixed number. With two manufacturers, it's fine. If they are three even better, and if we add two or three important [independent] teams it would be awsome.

- What about the Asian Le Mans Series?
- We will probably have two dates. We are discussing with many circuits. We wish to have one race in Japan and one in China. The race format could be double 500km races [as in Okayama 2009], but it will be more likely 1000km.

- What about the television broadcasting?
- We are working on that point. I believe that the presence of two or three manufacturers will be positive. We have an unique product, but it shoudn't be forgotten that the [European] LMS and ALMS already have broadcasting schemes.

(Mind that I've never attended French lessons, and it's quite different from Spanish.)

[Purist]

That's a pretty darn good job there from what I can tell.

I can believe that it was a bit too short a notice to throw in Sebring. It takes as much prep work as LM, effectively, and as we've seen, that Florida airfield can break pieces that have no trouble lasting at LM.

[Acid09]

There hardly was a "broadcasting scheme" last year with the LMS, I wish Eurosport would have at least kept up streaming the full races via their player.

[Asa]

Asian LMS still working on a race in China? So they will break their piggy bank to go to Shanghai then?

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by Acid09

There hardly was a "broadcasting scheme" last year with the LMS, I wish Eurosport would have at least kept up streaming the full races via their player.

An excellent alternative to traditional broadcast (TV) that was cancelled in the two final rounds with not even a simple justification...

[Acid09]

Indeed, it was a very feasable solution if you ask me. I understand that six hour races are nothing that can be televised live flag to flag on network TV but the player was a great alternative.

Too bad they just dropped it for no reason, I would be willing to pay for full streaming of the races.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Except it would be as popular as Grand Am......

It can't be any worse than a couple of LMP1's running around on their own, GT2 was the reason to watch the ALMS last season, and possibly next.

Thing's would look a little different if you had ten LMP2's, another dozen LMPC's and a similar number of GT2's.

Top that off with a couple LMIC rounds, guaranteeing Sebring and PLM only rank behind Le Mans in terms of prestige, I think that's as good as it's going to get in this economic age.

That is unless the ALMS can persuade the North American branches of Audi, Porsche, Acura etc. to support ALMS LMP1 campaigns, I don't think they can rely on European or Japanease funded programs, targeting Le Mans, to add anymore than a handful of US races.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

That is unless the ALMS can persuade the North American branches of Audi, Porsche, Acura etc. to support ALMS LMP1 campaigns, I don't think they can rely on European or Japanease funded programs, targeting Le Mans, to add anymore than a handful of US races.

Without manufacturer support and more importantly dollars, there is no future for the ALMS, nor for the LMIC in North America. It is that simple.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Without manufacturer support and more importantly dollars, there is no future for the ALMS, nor for the LMIC in North America. It is that simple.

Bingo....

[JAG]

Much of the prototype manufactuer support has already been lost, if a manufactuer like Audi can no longer justify a season long ALMS campaign, who else is going to step up?

Sebring and PLM will always draw a grid, just as Daytona did, particularly if they are part of a series, whether that be the LMIC, the ALMS, or both.

I don't see what the alternative is, manufactuer's have withdrawn from both the LMS and ALMS, the programs were fragmented, which must have limited the ROI, and ultimately threatened the programs as a whole.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

Much of the prototype manufactuer support has already been lost, if a manufactuer like Audi can no longer justify a season long ALMS campaign, who else is going to step up?

Sebring and PLM will always draw a grid, just as Daytona did, particularly if they are part of a series, whether that be the LMIC, the ALMS, or both.

I don't see what the alternative is, manufactuer's have withdrawn from both the LMS and ALMS, the programs were fragmented, which must have limited the ROI, and ultimately threatened the programs as a whole.

We are talking about what should have been a temporary manufacturer loss, and financial support for the ALMS. The LMS has been run under a different financial model, and it is less relevant for them.

These pull backs should not have been permanent, but with the introduction of the LMIC, there is an alternative, rendering the need to compete in a full series irrelevant, unless there is a specific marketing need to compete full time in North America.

What do you believe Jag will happen, if revenues continue to decrease for the ALMS, and they decide not to continue?

1. A group/individual could come in and purchase the assets of the series and sanction.
2. A group/individual could come in and purchase the tracks properties/lease deal.
3. NASCAR could purchase the series assets, and run DP's instead.
4. NASCAR could just purchase the tracks, or rights to some tracks and the series would be dead.

Under any of these scenarios, it is probable that LMIC races cease to come to North America, and you essentially have a couple of races in Europe and in Asia as your "world championship". Frankly, a farce.

Sebring and PLM would not be part of LMIC, and could under any of the 4 scenarios above be run under entirely different rules than what the ACO does. The timing for the LMIC couldn't have been worse. It should be introduced at a time when the sanctions were at a strength, when manufacturer (financial) support was at a strength. Foolish timing, but then the ACO's thinking hasn't been much short of foolish the last few years anyway.

The alternative was to wait until the series, and events were strong already. Then introduce the LMIC, in a manner than enhanced, not weakened the existing series events.

[HORNDAWG]

Yep!!




L.P.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

We are talking about what should have been a temporary manufacturer loss.........

This implies (to me) that one or more manufacturers had indicated prior to the LMIC announcement that they intended to return to the Series (or arrive) in 2011 (?).

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

This implies (to me) that one or more manufacturers had indicated prior to the LMIC announcement that they intended to return to the Series (or arrive) in 2011 (?).

It wasn't my intent to suggest such a thing. Certainly Audi doesn't make board decisions that far in advance. Porsche doesn't. That just leaves Honda/Acura.... They'll only come back if there are competitors, known and committed already. The probability of that, when the rules aren't even finalized for 2011 seem remote.

[HORNDAWG]

Hmm, Acura switches to HPD and rides out the down turn and invigerates its new, full, grass roots up racing, as covered by MWM. Audi, after riding out the debacle with Porsche vs. VAG comes back (as it has been saying through Ullrich all along) so there is/was the possibility of at least the 2 mfg for P-1 in the ALMS with the others showing for Sebring/PLM. If Audi does not show to provide competition for HPD it will probably not materialize as a future program! So that would basically put a knife in the gut of the ALMS, which in turn almost cetainly kills all chance of ACO racing in N.America, IMO. And as outlined by Fogelhund.








L.P.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

We are talking about what should have been a temporary manufacturer loss, and financial support for the ALMS. The LMS has been run under a different financial model, and it is less relevant for them.

These pull backs should not have been permanent, but with the introduction of the LMIC, there is an alternative, rendering the need to compete in a full series irrelevant, unless there is a specific marketing need to compete full time in North America.

What do you believe Jag will happen, if revenues continue to decrease for the ALMS, and they decide not to continue?

1. A group/individual could come in and purchase the assets of the series and sanction.
2. A group/individual could come in and purchase the tracks properties/lease deal.
3. NASCAR could purchase the series assets, and run DP's instead.
4. NASCAR could just purchase the tracks, or rights to some tracks and the series would be dead.

Under any of these scenarios, it is probable that LMIC races cease to come to North America, and you essentially have a couple of races in Europe and in Asia as your "world championship". Frankly, a farce.

Sebring and PLM would not be part of LMIC, and could under any of the 4 scenarios above be run under entirely different rules than what the ACO does. The timing for the LMIC couldn't have been worse. It should be introduced at a time when the sanctions were at a strength, when manufacturer (financial) support was at a strength. Foolish timing, but then the ACO's thinking hasn't been much short of foolish the last few years anyway.

The alternative was to wait until the series, and events were strong already. Then introduce the LMIC, in a manner than enhanced, not weakened the existing series events.

As usual, you hit the nail right on the head, Fogelhund

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

As usual, you hit the nail right on the head, Fogelhund

Seconded. The man is a very astute commentator.

[LeMans.pt]

So... basically... or the ALMS it's the most important endurance championship in the world (almost bigger than Le Mans) or else... take your but out if my land?

LOL

[cmk]

I cannot really understand that post. Rephrase?