2010 Le Mans Intercontinental Cup

[NaBUru38]

If we want the manufacturers to develop the most advanced race cars of the world (LMP1) and private teams can't afford them, what solution can we find other than suggesting the latter to race in a cheaper, slower class (LMP2)? The manufacturers wouldn't be happy if less advanced (and less expensive) cars were allowed in LMP1, or if LMP2s were about as fast as LMP1s.

[Speed-King]

Ban manufacturers from participating with works teams, make them either sell whole cars or engines to the privateer teams like they used to do for a long time in F1.

[JAG]

Ideally you'd have a dozen factory LMP1 entries at Le Mans, plus at least a couple of those manufactuer's supplying customer cars.

That then leaves Lola, Zytek and ORECA to pick up the pieces, the majority of their sales would come from LMP2.

Of course there's also the possibilty Lola etc. could link up with a manufactuer.

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

If we want the manufacturers to develop the most advanced race cars of the world (LMP1) and private teams can't afford them, what solution can we find other than suggesting the latter to race in a cheaper, slower class (LMP2)? The manufacturers wouldn't be happy if less advanced (and less expensive) cars were allowed in LMP1, or if LMP2s were about as fast as LMP1s.

Of course, doing so goes against the whole history of this sport. Of course, who ever said that private teams can't afford the same cars, when the factories won;t even sell them the cars to begin with? Seems to me to be a problem with the whole line of thinking of where this sport is going.

[Mal]

Looks like Drayson are up for the LMIC

http://www.americanlemans.com/index_news.php?n=14208

and Kolles also have confirmed they are in.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Paul Drayson, owner of Drayson Racing

I hope that, in time, this will lead to a full world championship for LMP1 sports cars emphasising speed, endurance, energy efficiency and technological innovation. In other words, a global motorsport series that is relevant in the 21st century.

So they are willing to spend some serious money on cars... That's strange for a private team in these days, but great for us!

[JAG]

So the 2010 entry could be-

2x Joest Audi R15's
2x Peugeot Sport 908's
2x Kolles Audi R10's
1x Drayson Lola Judd's

?????????????

1x Oreca Peugeot 908
1x Pescarolo
1x Signature Aston Martin

Who else, any Asia only entrants, like Dome, in preperation for 2011?

[cmk]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

So they are willing to spend some serious money on cars... That's strange for a private team in these days, but great for us!

Given that Lord Drayson's day job is as the UK minister for science and innovation, I think it directly links to the type of ideals he is promoting in public office. Furthermore, the guy has a PhD in robotics, so it doesn't seem likely that he'd be the type not to want to develop technologies!

[NaBUru38]

Wow, cmk, I didn't know that! But still, the shocking thing the money. If he wants to develop new technologies in his Le Mans team and be competitive against works teams, he will have to spend a lot of money. I'm still surprised that he wants to go ahead, and glad.

[Hugewally]

And just how does a privateer develop new technologies that would be allowed to be used on their car (read homologation)?

[cmk]

They are big into alternative fuels - Barwell ran bio-ethanol in Drayson's British GT Aston.

[Fogelhund]

No Peugeot? Brilliant isn't it.

http://www.planetlemans.com/2010/01/...ntinental-cup/

[NaBUru38]

Hugewally, carmakers buy some parts to outside suppliers (Bosch, Delphi, Magnetti Marelli, ZF, etc). If this private racing team develops new technologies with help from these companies, carmakers can easily add those technologies to their cars by buying the pieces to the suppliers.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

No Peugeot? Brilliant isn't it.

http://www.planetlemans.com/2010/01/...ntinental-cup/

I´m not sure wheter you´re being sarcastic but I fail to see what's brilliant about Peugeot not entering the cup. That basicly means Audi gets it handed on a silver platter, a real shame.

The only positive thing is that this article once more confirms Peugeot is indeed building a new car for 2011. That Oreca engine deal had me worried that they might scale their operation back to engine supply only.

Looking forward to the 909 or whatever it will be called.

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Hugewally, carmakers buy some parts to outside suppliers (Bosch, Delphi, Magnetti Marelli, ZF, etc). If this private racing team develops new technologies with help from these companies, carmakers can easily add those technologies to their cars by buying the pieces to the suppliers.

And yet those 'homologation' rules keep so much from being developed by the 'little guys'(unless you're willing to pay for the re-homologation ...). So really, what can a privateer actually do within the rules? Answer - very, very little.

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by Acid09

I´m not sure wheter you´re being sarcastic .....

Yes, sarcasm...

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

No Peugeot? Brilliant isn't it.

http://www.planetlemans.com/2010/01/...ntinental-cup/

Yes it is brilliant, another year for the 908 and Peugeot confirming a new car for 2011. I recall some US news sources claiming Peugeot would pack-up shop after last year.

Peugeot also welcome the LMIC and I've no doubt this series will be one of the major factors attracting Peugeot and future manufactuer's to ACO racing.

The above news is only a downer if you expected a factory Peugeot entry in the LMS or ALMS.

By 2011 I'd expect to see LMIC entries from Audi, Peugeot, Aston Martin, and one other manufactuer, whether that be Toyota, BMW or whoever.

Without the LMIC I'd expect manufactuer's to contest Le Mans and a couple of other races on an ad-hoc basis, relegating these extra events to glorified test sessions, the likes of the Silverstone 1000k and PLM don't deserve this second rate status.

ACO sportscar racing needs half a dozen events in which we are guaranteed manufactuer battles on a par with Le Mans. In 1990 Mercedes passed on Le Mans, then not part of the World Championship, it shows how far the other events have dropped in status that it would be unthinkable for Audi or Peugeot to pass on Le Mans.

Sorry but what the LMS and ALMS has been serving up recently has been poor, with few indications things will improve significantly.

[Acid09]

The most likely manufacturer to join LMP1 in 2011 is definetely Porsche considering the hints from the new CEO.

[Fogelhund]

Honestly, I think the business side of this sport is lost on some.

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by Acid09

The most likely manufacturer to join LMP1 in 2011 is definetely Porsche considering the hints from the new CEO.

But will it come at the loss of Audi?

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

But will it come at the loss of Audi?

They (Porsche) said that there was nothing wrong about both 'cousins' manufactures racing each other!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Honestly, I think the business side of this sport is lost on some.

It's about putting European self-interest first.

Manufactuer's and major privateers are the ones calling for the LMIC, Europe and Asia, the two most important markets for the ACO, will benefit.

How can ACO sportscar racing be dictated by a series that has recently lost the support of Audi, Porsche and Acura, now it looks like one of the stalwarts of the series, Dyson, could be downsizing to one entry.

The ALMS has brought so much to ACO sportscar racing and given a platform to European manufactuer's and teams when no such series existed over here.

Now however the ALMS needs to discover what works for them, the European and Asian markets cannot be held back any longer, the mediocrity and lack of ambition has continued for too long.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

It's about putting European self-interest first.

Manufactuer's and major privateers are the ones calling for the LMIC, Europe and Asia, the two most important markets for the ACO, will benefit.

How can ACO sportscar racing be dictated by a series that has recently lost the support of Audi, Porsche and Acura, now it looks like one of the stalwarts of the series, Dyson, could be downsizing to one entry.

The ALMS has brought so much to ACO sportscar racing and given a platform to European manufactuer's and teams when no such series existed over here.

Now however the ALMS needs to discover what works for them, the European and Asian markets cannot be held back any longer, the mediocrity and lack of ambition has continued for too long.

Manufacturers? All one of them? That will certainly create world wide media attention won't it? Talk about coming out with a whimper. If you are going to create a quasi-world championship, get your ducks in a row, and ensure that you are going have world interest in it. This won't, it's a flop already if Peugeot don't bother. Assuming Peugeot (or others) will enter in 2011, this should have waited for 2011, when a grand introduction could have been made.

That it seems either the ACO didn't discuss this with Peugeot, or decided to go ahead anyway is a major fail.

Major Privateers are calling for this?

So, all this talk earlier about Manufacturer dollars increasing the media awareness... do you really think Audi will foot that bill alone for that? It isn't happening.

There is no business case for an Asian market Le Mans Series. There won't be one for some time.

This isn't the way to introduce a new series, even putting aside my prior concerns. Really, this is ridiculous... undermine what has been one of the strengths of Le Mans type series, the ALMS, so that ONE manufacturer can enter a "World Championship". The Privateers are irrelevant to the important business factors.

I fail to see exactly what positive self-interest has been served here? ACO created something for Audi, so that the ACO executives get some free lease cars? For 2010, this will do nothing for Europe interests, the sports interest, or anything else.

[Lola T70]

Are we forgetting about Toyota and their 2011 plans that look to be ongoing?

A Intercontinental Cup is right up their street.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Manufacturers? All one of them? That will certainly create world wide media attention won't it? Talk about coming out with a whimper. If you are going to create a quasi-world championship, get your ducks in a row, and ensure that you are going have world interest in it. This won't, it's a flop already if Peugeot don't bother. Assuming Peugeot (or others) will enter in 2011, this should have waited for 2011, when a grand introduction could have been made.

There is no business case for an Asian market Le Mans Series. There won't be one for some time.

I think that the ACO have at least got the ball rolling with the Intercontinental Cup. Time will only tell if the series will be successful or not. From a worldwide perspective, most of us hope that it will be. I can certainly understand that North Americans probably feel a bit betrayed about the way the whole thing has been rolled out.
Re your earlier point about the business side of the sport being lost on some, you are probably right. I must admit, I selfishly look at the whole saga strictly from a fans point of view, and want to see strong fields of manufacturers and privateers turn out. Hopefully, the economic situation around the world may improve over the next year or two and we will see this eventuate.