2020 TCR Series - Page 4

Mixer · 21 Dec 2019, 02:22 (Ref:3947824)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Mazda postponed til 2021.

Real shame, that thing looks dead sexy. Seriously integrated rather than the tacked on flares of many.

E.B · 21 Dec 2019, 02:49 (Ref:3947826)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

Real shame, that thing looks dead sexy. Seriously integrated rather than the tacked on flares of many.

Certainly as you say a purposeful looking bit of kit. Sad it is only for the tracks with no actual road version of car or engine.
From Mazda Australia

Quote:

"The vehicle is available for Australian teams to purchase (from North America) however Mazda Australia has nothing to announce regarding fielding a team in the local series."

Mixer · 21 Dec 2019, 03:13 (Ref:3947827)

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.B

Certainly as you say a purposeful looking bit of kit. Sad it is only for the tracks with no actual road version of car or engine.
From Mazda Australia

Same as the Renault, so much for "production" racing.

We have cars with bespoke engines and gearboxes and people racing cars you can't even buy *allegedly. Where does it end?

V8 Fireworks · 21 Dec 2019, 04:19 (Ref:3947835)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

Same as the Renault, so much for "production" racing.

The Honda and VW/Audi both use absolutely standard engines, available for a very reasonable circa $10,000 AUD for a complete brand new engine.

The suspension pickup points and type are the same as the road car.

The doors, roof and bodyshell are all the same as the road car.

They are far more touring cars than the Supercars series... Nobody claimed they were "production" racing cars.

Note that the Group A Commodore did use the production gearbox either but rather a Holinger unit, substituting the gearbox is standard practice in a touring car.

V8 Fireworks · 21 Dec 2019, 04:22 (Ref:3947836)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

Bloody hell you would think you'd like to see any sort of consistency of entries and for the promoter not to control half the cars in the field before you think about TCR being the ATCC.

What a negative attitude...

Tourer · 21 Dec 2019, 04:50 (Ref:3947838)

Quote:

Originally Posted by one five five

It’s a contractual requirement for CAMS to award the ATCC to the Supercars series winner? How long is the contract for?

Supercars don’t use the name, they just reference the history. Wouldn’t it be better served going to a series that might want to promote the title? (TCR might not want to, it seems like a good fit though, especially given Supercars are hardly touring cars anymore)

I believe that the legal agreement in place between CAMS & Supercar as a result of CAMS trying to shaft Supercar in 2000 included the winner of the main game being awarded the ATCC trophy. It had already been happening I think but the agreement enshrined the arrangement legally. No idea how long it runs for or any conditions etc but I believe that it exists.

I know that you don't believe that Supercars are touring cars anymore as you've said so many times, however the FIA and CAMS both rate Supercars as touring cars.

E.B · 21 Dec 2019, 06:00 (Ref:3947841)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

I know that you don't believe that Supercars are touring cars anymore as you've said so many times, however the FIA and CAMS both rate Supercars as touring cars.

As does the FIA with DTM, which I believe stands for Deutche TouringCar Masters

Tourer · 21 Dec 2019, 06:07 (Ref:3947842)

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.B

As does the FIA with DTM, which I believe stands for Deutche TouringCar Masters

Tourenwagen , which translates to English as Touring Car. Yeah, both DTM and VASA are classed as touring cars by the FIA - cheers E.B!!

one five five · 21 Dec 2019, 15:33 (Ref:3947891)

I find it a tad amusing that ‘fans’ would advocate the ATCC title being attributed to a series that doesn’t even use the name?

And why would Supercars want the tag but doesn’t use the name for anything except referencing old statistics that aren’t compatible with the current series

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

I believe that the legal agreement in place between CAMS & Supercar as a result of CAMS trying to shaft Supercar in 2000 included the winner of the main game being awarded the ATCC trophy. It had already been happening I think but the agreement enshrined the arrangement legally. No idea how long it runs for or any conditions etc but I believe that it exists.

Interesting. This question came up on the V8 Sleuth podcast recent, and CAMS being legally obliged to give the Supercars winner the ATCC title never came up in his response I’m sure the V8 Sleuth would agree he doesn’t know everything, you would think something like is knowledge he would be on top of.

Interesting viewpoint of CAMS shafting Supercars too, no matter what the legal outcome was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

I know that you don't believe that Supercars are touring cars anymore as you've said so many times, however the FIA and CAMS both rate Supercars as touring cars.

Doesn’t sound like CAMS has a choice, going by what you posted above

Do you consider Sports Sedans to be touring cars?

Tourer · 21 Dec 2019, 23:24 (Ref:3947933)

Quote:

Originally Posted by one five five

I find it a tad amusing that ‘fans’ would advocate the ATCC title being attributed to a series that doesn’t even use the name?

Fair enough - I find it highly amusing that "fans" would advocate the title being attributed to anything other than the top level of touring car racing in the country. Maybe we should award the Gold Star to Formula Vee and the World Drivers Championship to GP2?

Quote:

Interesting. This question came up on the V8 Sleuth podcast recent, and CAMS being legally obliged to give the Supercars winner the ATCC title never came up in his response I’m sure the V8 Sleuth would agree he doesn’t know everything, you would think something like is knowledge he would be on top of.

Well Noonz would have been maybe 7 years old at the time (kidding) but the media didn't get the same briefings that the teams (as shareholders) got when it was all going down. It was certainly part of the settlement at the time but that agreement may have been superseded or updated since then, hence my post saying "I believe".

Quote:

Interesting viewpoint of CAMS shafting Supercars too, no matter what the legal outcome was.

I guess it could be called an interesting viewpoint but most certainly an accurate one.

Quote:

Doesn’t sound like CAMS has a choice, going by what you posted above

Do you consider Sports Sedans to be touring cars?

Well, as the main game is an FIA series, I guess that whilst CAMS has input, ultimately the FIA system would prevail, although CAMS classified supercars as touring cars before the series became an FIA one.

I don't believe that either CAMS or the FIA classify Sports Sedans as touring cars so I don't see the point of your question?

bludvl_x19 · 22 Dec 2019, 01:12 (Ref:3947942)

Quote:

Originally Posted by one five five

Do you consider Sports Sedans to be touring cars?

CAMS certainly do.

3rd Category: Touring Cars - Group 3D: Sports Sedans
https://www.cams.com.au/docs/default...vrsn=73f1206_2

Tourer · 22 Dec 2019, 02:23 (Ref:3947948)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bludvl_x19

CAMS certainly do.

3rd Category: Touring Cars - Group 3D: Sports Sedans
https://www.cams.com.au/docs/default...vrsn=73f1206_2

Got me there mate - fair point. I stand corrected, thanks for sharing this.

Mixer · 22 Dec 2019, 03:00 (Ref:3947955)

Some people here seem to think a "touring car" in context has to be production based but to me at least it means a car with a roof.

chavez · 22 Dec 2019, 05:08 (Ref:3947982)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

Some people here seem to think a "touring car" in context has to be production based but to me at least it means a car with a roof.

Like a Toyota TS050?

one five five · 22 Dec 2019, 22:49 (Ref:3948118)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

Fair enough - I find it highly amusing that "fans" would advocate the title being attributed to anything other than the top level of touring car racing in the country. Maybe we should award the Gold Star to Formula Vee and the World Drivers Championship to GP2?

The World Championship was awarded to F2 for a couple of years, despite F1 races still taking place in those years.

Why would awarding the Gold Star to Formula Vee necessarily be a bad thing? CAMS aren’t issuing the title at the moment, but Formula Vee has been around for donkeys, provides great racing and still attracts plenty of competitors

The main point is shouldn’t the ATCC be a name that is used by whomever has the title in their hands? What is the point of Supercars having it when they do not use or promote one of Australian racing’s most prestigious titles?

Genuine question, does Scott McLaughlin even know he is the “Australian Touring Car Champion”?

Tourer · 22 Dec 2019, 23:48 (Ref:3948124)

Quote:

Originally Posted by one five five

The World Championship was awarded to F2 for a couple of years, despite F1 races still taking place in those years.

Why would awarding the Gold Star to Formula Vee necessarily be a bad thing? CAMS aren’t issuing the title at the moment, but Formula Vee has been around for donkeys, provides great racing and still attracts plenty of competitors

The main point is shouldn’t the ATCC be a name that is used by whomever has the title in their hands? What is the point of Supercars having it when they do not use or promote one of Australian racing’s most prestigious titles?

Genuine question, does Scott McLaughlin even know he is the “Australian Touring Car Champion”?

I'm fully aware of the 1952 & 1953 seasons - nearly 70 years ago and not done since.

Awarding Gold Star to F Vee would only make sense if F Ford, F3, S5000 didn't exist - the peak drivers award should be in the peak series, motor racing being a pyramid as it heads upwards.

The main point is that the ATCC be awarded to the winner of the premier touring car competition in the country. What is the point of a series other than Supercars having it when that series is not the premier series and awarding the title to a lesser series denigrates one of Australian racing's most prestigious titles?

Don't know Scott McLaughlin personally but given that he as twice been presented with the ATCC trophy and attended CAMS awards nights to receive it, I reckon that he knows.

leothedrummer · 23 Dec 2019, 00:52 (Ref:3948130)

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.B

As does the FIA with DTM, which I believe stands for Deutche TouringCar Masters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

Tourenwagen , which translates to English as Touring Car. Yeah, both DTM and VASA are classed as touring cars by the FIA - cheers E.B!!

Which I always found to be a bit daft - a DTM car is a touring car, a Super GT car is a GT car....but they share the exact same tech regs.

What's in a name?

Tourer · 23 Dec 2019, 04:32 (Ref:3948142)

Guess it’s as much about the body on top as the mechanicals when it comes to how the car is classified?

one five five · 23 Dec 2019, 05:32 (Ref:3948145)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

I'm fully aware of the 1952 & 1953 seasons - nearly 70 years ago and not done since.

Awarding Gold Star to F Vee would only make sense if F Ford, F3, S5000 didn't exist - the peak drivers award should be in the peak series, motor racing being a pyramid as it heads upwards.

The main point is that the ATCC be awarded to the winner of the premier touring car competition in the country. What is the point of a series other than Supercars having it when that series is not the premier series and awarding the title to a lesser series denigrates one of Australian racing's most prestigious titles?

Don't know Scott McLaughlin personally but given that he as twice been presented with the ATCC trophy and attended CAMS awards nights to receive it, I reckon that he knows.

So you are perfectly happy for a title that was once the most recognised title in Australian Motorsport, and as you acknowledge to still be one of Australia’s most prestigious titles, now be a second string award that is not promoted and barely mentioned by the series that receives it. Does that not denigrate it further, the fact it is a secondary award to the Supercars Championship now?

If it was so prestigious, why don’t Supercars promote and use the name as the forefront? They obviously don’t see value in the name over their own brand, just in referencing statistics on the telecast.

Who cares if it’s not the ‘peak’ series that has the title, at least the non-peak series might be using the name and giving it a sense of priority, which Supercars currently do not.

Tourer · 23 Dec 2019, 11:01 (Ref:3948182)

Nothing 2nd string about it - the winner of the main game is awarded the ATCC, as they should be.

It was and still is prestigious - hence the winner of the main game being awarded the ATCC.

Awarding the ATCC to anything other than the peak series would be a complete joke and denigrate the history of the title - as it has always been about the peak touring car series in the country. Giving the title to the winner of a (currently) 2nd string series, regardless of whether that series used the ATCC name or not, would dishonour the memory of those who have previously been awarded the title.

Nicholosophy · 29 Dec 2019, 21:17 (Ref:3948974)

I believe the topic is over there -------->

Tourer · 29 Dec 2019, 22:37 (Ref:3948987)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholosophy

I believe the topic is over there -------->

Yeah, I know - but then what would be the fun of staying fully on topic all the time?

dsg · 30 Dec 2019, 02:43 (Ref:3948995)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

Some people here seem to think a "touring car" in context has to be production based but to me at least it means a car with a roof.

A touring car is whatever the regulations decide is a touring car. The designation of what a touring car is, is not set in stone.

gravin · 15 Jan 2020, 03:55 (Ref:3951678)

There has been little news of drivers for 2020 - HMO have announced that negotiations are continuing.

Only some of the private entries have been comfirmed to date AFAIK.

gravin · 17 Jan 2020, 02:53 (Ref:3952037)

Good to see Morgan Park get the nod for QLD based round.

Should be a good circuit for the cars.

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