Persistant problems with all LMS races for spectators

[Flat12-Aircool]

Whilst I don't want to criticise Donington specifically, it has to be said that from a spectator "knowing what was going on" point of view, then this year was worst than last year. I thought this series was supposed to be getting more popular, but as things stand the situation seems to be getting worse!

First of all there was NO big TV screen!!! We had one last year at Silverstone, why not one this year?!? Combined with the totally inaudible commentary system, I'm surprised anybody knew what was going on except for those watching the TV at home.

I myself this year, even invested in a portable radio which was particially successful, as because of the undulating terrain of Donington I couldn't always get a signal. And if I could get one I wasn't able to hear without being far away from the track.

If the LMS series is going to provide an adequate Spectator experience then it needs to start using the ALMS "3 Light system" NOW!!! After several hours the initial thrill of the occasion wains slightly, and from then onwards you would like to have at least some idea of what is going on, and who is winning.

This really is simple elementary stuff, just give the fans a few places around the circuit where they can look at a screen and get the current positions in the race.

As things stand at the moment, the circuit expects each fan to have a laptop computer logged into the Live Timing webpage!

After 3 years of the LMS it simply isn't good enough, and Endurance racing fans deserve and should get better.

[rdjones]

Firstly big screen's cost a lot of money to hire and operate, I was in very lucky postion of being able to pop back to the media centre to get race updates, even though I was trackside I did have Radio Donington on all the way through the race, even if it was difficult to hear at times, I was able to keep up with the race.

But I do have a major complete, lack of burger fan's from what I could work out there where only 2, one outside Redgate and one in the paddock. Half way through the race I wanted something to eat and I was on the inside of track so I throught I would get something from the burger fan which is normally located behind the Spitfire, but what did I find a dought fan instead so that meant a trip back to the paddock, there should have been a burger fan on the inside of the track.

[Flat12-Aircool]

Originally Posted by rdjones

Firstly big screen's cost a lot of money to hire and operate,

This series is supposed to be getting more popular year on year. And yet follow this, last year with have a big screen this year we don't. I still don't understand, more high profile, more spectators (some would claim), more TV coverage. And yet some areas are going backwards, why?

Originally Posted by rdjones

But I do have a major complete, lack of burger fan's from what I could work out there where only 2, one outside Redgate and one in the paddock. Half way through the race I wanted something to eat and I was on the inside of track so I throught I would get something from the burger fan which is normally located behind the Spitfire, but what did I find a dought fan instead so that meant a trip back to the paddock, there should have been a burger fan on the inside of the track.

I sympathise, we also tried to get some burgers ourselves from the paddock stall around 5 o'clock only to be told that "they had run out of food"!

Yet another example of bad planning.

[dj choc ice]

why do you need a big screen when you are at the race track its like going out to watch TV pfft lol

[ger80]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

why do you need a big screen when you are at the race track its like going out to watch TV pfft lol

Yes, that would be great. A few dvb-t channels at the race tracks. live signal, pits, race highlights, live timing ....

[isynge]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

why do you need a big screen when you are at the race track its like going out to watch TV pfft lol

I found I lost overall track of what was going on after the first hour or so and then had to rely on periodically popping into the grandstand opposite the pits and glean what I could from the pit boards. Towards the end deciding to sit by the Spitfire I pretty much had to rely on deduction to guess where people were - and mainly got it right - but missed some crucial bits - namely that the Rollcentre was in with a chance of a win - simply down to inaudible commentary and a lack of anything showing a breakdown of who was running where.

It's not a big grumble - I sat grinning the whole way back down the M1 - and from many perspectives Donington's a great amphiteatre to hold a motor race in, but all in all, like so much of British motorsport there still a bit of amateurism that means the experience isn't quite as polished as I'd like it to be...

So - probably a 2:1 for what Donington put it - and from this fan's perspective not too much needed for it to get its first...

[Hazard]

Most races don't have screens, that's hardly surprising.

Race markers around the track are, well, something I've never seen?!

You need a radio. One that has fair volume, good at picking up signals, and a pair of headphones that can double as track noise killers...either closed back one if you want a little bit silly too, or the ear-wax scooping in-ears preferably.

Sorry your race experience wasn't a good one.

[R59]

That's one thing the DTM do well. Live timing screens all over the place, so you can see what's going on, who's doing what, etc.. plus the big diamond screens allow you to see what's going on in the pits, or even replays of incidents which are out of your view.

Putting on the live timing screens should be straightforward, as I'm fairly sure that most FIA approved circuits are wired up for it. When I was at Donington earlier in the month with the EERC/V8 Supercars, I was reduced to being a spectator and took to Redgate for a bit of viewing, there I noticed the telltale connection boxes for the video/data, which disappeared down the fence towards craners. So it wouldn't cost must to throw up some 32inch LCD's or similar, showing that live timing....

Rob.

[Flat12-Aircool]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

why do you need a big screen when you are at the race track its like going out to watch TV pfft lol

You really don't get it, do you.

We need to see the racing order and also replays of incidents happening the other side of the circuit.

By the sounds of it, you could easily be one of the so-called Organisers running these events.

[Flat12-Aircool]

Originally Posted by Hazard

Most races don't have screens, that's hardly surprising.

Race markers around the track are, well, something I've never seen?!

You need a radio. One that has fair volume, good at picking up signals, and a pair of headphones that can double as track noise killers...either closed back one if you want a little bit silly too, or the ear-wax scooping in-ears preferably.

Sorry your race experience wasn't a good one.

Don't get me wrong, it was a good day. It's just frustrating that the same deficiencies crop up year after year.

You say that most races don't have screens, but most races don't have 40+ cars split into 4 classes! If there's ever a racing format that needs one or more large updating Video walls, then it's the Le Mans series format.

They've had 3 years to clear-up this amateurism and something needs to change. Not everybody who go's a race comes back next year...

[Marky]

yer you deff need big screens like at lemans its nice to see whats happaning round the ciruict and like flat12 said replays and things because you can never here the radio

[Erki]

As a fan of rallying as well, I wouldn't care less if there was a screen. I would go to a race to primarily see the cars not screens. I can catch the race at home on TV later as well.

[Marky]

i go to a lot of rallys but ist a differnt ball game. when there racing for 6 hrs you need to know whats happaning. i here where your coming from bye watching it at home but i like to know whats happaing in the race

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by Flat12-Aircool

You really don't get it, do you.

We need to see the racing order and also replays of incidents happening the other side of the circuit.

By the sounds of it, you could easily be one of the so-called Organisers running these events.

hehe i doubt it very much at 16 but anything is possible nowadays lol

[The Real DMN]

Originally Posted by Marky

yer you deff need big screens like at lemans its nice to see whats happaning round the ciruict and like flat12 said replays and things because you can never here the radio

Yeah, Le Mans is very good for it. I counted 3 big screens at least this year around the village area up to the Dunlop bridge alone. Those plus Radio Le Mans ment it was easy to keep a track of things.

I guess it all comes down to money, with over 250,000 people plus attending Le mans they have the money to afford such things.

[Nick49]

Hello

And whats wrong with wanting big screens, radio commentary you can hear, live timing and food stalls?

This is 2006 and we live in a high technology age and I would like to think that the LMS is rated 2nd, or somewhere near there behind the Almighty God of F1. If football grounds, international athletic meetings and the like can have some or all of these facilities why can't we. It adds to the enjoyment and knowledge of the race fan whether they are ardent been there, done that types, or passers by. Everyone likes a show.

The more we accept second rate facilities, the more we will get them.

Nick

[eddsc]

Sadly, it's hard to imagine the race returning to Donington Park, with the congestion and dangers in the pit lane.
I've never heard of signal problems with Donington Park radio - but if it was coming and going, that must have been very frustrating.
It was a reasonable crowd, but if it was a one-off event, then the circuit was unlikely to have made much of an effort with such as a large screen.
Will the UK get a Le Mans Series race next year? It's scandalous that the event didn't return to Silverstone - not that I'm a great Silverstone fan (van?), but that's where the race should be held.
MC

[Flat12-Aircool]

Originally Posted by eddsc

Will the UK get a Le Mans Series race next year? It's scandalous that the event didn't return to Silverstone - not that I'm a great Silverstone fan (van?), but that's where the race should be held.
MC

A return to Silverstone maybe, but I don't think Donington "as a circuit" is necessarily a bad choice. It's the execution thats the problem.

Personally, if the plans go ahead I think the re-developed Snetterton with it's proposed 3.3 mile International circuit would be well worth a visit for the LMS! The 2 long straights would be perfect for Le Mans Prototype racing.

[henk4]

Having just returned from the UK I can support many of the points made in the above posts.
The pitlane is not made for refuelling activities. It is simply too small. The pit exit is too short and risky, and cannot be lengthened.
The speakers are hardly audible, (which is not always a disadvantage )
The track itself is great for these sort of cars, although there were many cases when slower cars failed to see the upcoming faster ones, which had problems with overtaking mainly due to the lack of straits.
The race could only be followed either in the media centre, or just by going into the pitboxes and looking at the screens there.

The final phase of the LMP2 race was really thrilling as at 18.10 the Lola of Tommy Erdos came in for a final stop and lost a significant amount of time due to a rear wheel that did not want to come loose. This was watched with some satisfaction by Mr. Short, three boxes up the field. And then when 5 minutes later the leading Rollcentre Radical came in for a routine stop the car failed to restart, when the starter engine running but unable to catch the engine, even after frantic efforts to move the car up and down the pitlane. It had to be put into the box and did not make it out before the flag, and it did not appear in the scoring list, although it did far more laps than Bill Binnie's Lola.

For those who are interested a pictoral review of the race is here

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame...em.php&rid=104

[TheNewBob]

I was surprised about the commentary being quiet - I'm sure they've had it louder than that before when FIA GT ran there...? I admit I forgot to bring a radio along with me, but it was just impossible trying to listen to the speakers when cars were passing.

As for the lack of burger vans, that may well have something to do with the race being held on a bank holiday weekend.

[chocmonster7]

Have to agree that there must be some way of finding out the positions during the race. I'm not too worried about big screens, but even an old fashioned notice board with hourly updates would have been good!

Was guilty of forgetting to bring a radio along which would have helped a bit.

As for food, that's easy, you walk five minutes around the corner and go to the market. Where for an entrance fee of 50p you can treat yourself to anything from a jacket potato with two fillings (£2.50) to a Halal chicken curry with rice & naan bread (£5) plus a decent cuppa for 50p.

Also gives you the chance to stock up on cheap drinks and snacks to keep you going though the rest of the race. A trip to Donny isn't the same without going to the market plus as you can hear the speakers you can easily keep up with the race while you're there!

Totally enjoyed my day out, just wish the Zytek hadn't broken.

[The Badger]

I would like to see the 3 light position system introduced for the benifit of those who are not as well clued up as some are .

And I cant see why they cant do something to identify what driver is doing the driving for a specific stint . They used a velcro strip back in the days of Group C , and that worked .

[iucrmh]

The biggest problem we had at Donington was keeping up with what was going on, that is until we managed to see someones radio and the frequency they were on. Where was the fact that the commentary was on the radio advertised? I didn't see a mention of it anywhere, apologies if I missed the obvious but it could have been advertised better. Once tuned in, it was great. No problems with the reception and we wandered to all four corners.

The tannoy is a bit of a waste of time when there are 41 cars on track, so the radio was essential, especially as the lappery started after about 3 laps or so. Great circuit for taking photos and getting closer unobstructed views.

As for the food, hmmmmmm! Bit of a pain not taking credit cards on the gate as well. The gate staff and programme sellers were very nice though, hoping we had an enjoyable day.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by iucrmh

Bit of a pain not taking credit cards on the gate as well.

That came incredibly close to putting an incredibly sour note on the day! Thankfully we'd stopped by a cashpoint in Nottingham - in the back of our mind thinking it's often better to have a reasonable float on us, otherwise I suspect there'd have been three fewer there for the start... I appreciate asking for a big screen might be a bit much but a credit card machine at each of the gates? Surely that's feasible...

[The Tour]

Boys and Girls,

After speaking with quite a few teams and drivers over the weekend I had been asked to start a thread by an unamed Team Manager on Donington not being suitable for the LMS for drivers, teams and fans.

These teams are interested in gaining feedback and this thread seems to be pretty much what they were looking for so I will pass this link to those involved in the LMS.

My understanding is that from a teams point of view the pits are completely inadequate. There are mini slopes between each pit that the prototypes bottom out on. No permanent electricity/hot water alledgedly and the fuel rig arrangements were also regarded as ridiculous (these are not my opinions by the way)

Turning out attention to us, the fans. Well I am becoming ever more embarassed by so called world class events being staged here in this country.

Our podcast was lucky enough to have access to the Media Centre although believe me the stigma that comes with a fans podcast being in the media centre makes it far less enjoyable than being trackside with the fans. Even though I had access to the media centre I wanted to spend most of my time around the circuit and I would have to agree that the information, facilities and general look around the place left me feeling like I was watching a club event as opposed to watching 40+ of the best sportscars on earth.

The great British public seems to be staying away, which is really dissapointing but I suppose with the treatment they recieve and the terrible marketing of such an event then it is hardly surprising. It really does seem though that the Sportscar community is concerned about our welfare even if the circuits are not so any comments made may help us in the future.

When speaking to Tommy Erdos on Friday night he said that it is really upsetting looking up to see hardly any fans trackside and wants to know why so few attend when we take 100,000 odd to Le Mans? He was extremely interested in the event from a fans point of view and so were many more. Maybe this thread can help to give them some of the answers why...........

Sorry, I seem to have written an essay. Anyway a complete review of the weekend will be online from tomorrow in our latest podcast, see http://tourpodcast.googlepages.com/