Persistant problems with all LMS races for spectators

[Alistair_Ryder]

Hello people, glad we all enjoyed the weekend then

Overall I found the race to be very exciting and the circuit to be brilliant..if a little short for such a race.

However, I did find the event as a whole a complete letdown from the previous years when it was tied in with the British F3/GT weekend.
What annoyed and upset me the most seemed to be the total disregard for us mere mortals who have a general entry ticket. Everything appeared to cater towards those with special passes. On the saturday we were told we couldn't get in the paddock with a 'normal ticket' (fortunately there were other gates open), once in, I found there was absolutely no chance of seeing the cars in the garages and there was just nothing to see or do besides wander the track. I think the ACO or the promoters need to look at the difference between whats on offer at Le Mans/Donington. Look at the successful ingrediants of Le Mans - Drivers Parade, Pit Lane Walk + Tonnes of Freebies from the teams, Stalls, Funfair, Karting, Bars, Abundance of Food venues etc.. Then compare with what was on offer at donington..is it any wonder??!

On another issue, we took two endurance race novices who found the race great, yet were irritated by not having a clue who was leading each class and thus their attention was lost. I agree that the light system of the ALMS should be used, or at least some form of thing. If i hadn't have found my way into race control point to get the hourly time sheets we'd have all been completely lost.

'The Tour' - I think this idea of our comments actually reaching somewhere is fantastic, well done.

[Alistair_Ryder]

P.S Yes I realise the key to the le mans ingrediants i mentioned was money and the cost of these additional features, but i'm sure they could have implemented some of the attributes of le mans

[chocmonster7]

Not being able to see the cars in the garages, paddock etc. was a big disappointment to me. In previous years I've enjoyed wandering around bumping into drivers and having chats with mechanics but this time it seemed you could walk up the line of transporters and that was it.

I love Donington for the sweeping turns of the track which usually gives us a good race (and this was) but they do seem to have wandered off course with the new pits. Sadly I'm sure the meeting will go back to Silverstone next time.

As for attendance, I have never been able to work out why 100,000+ British people who claim to be racing fans can make it over to Le Mans yet can't be bothered to go to their local race.

[zac510]

How many spectators were there, approximately?

No amount of money can buy the history and aura that surrounds the real LM 24 hour.

[FMSC]

Yeah I was there too for www.feedmesportscars.com and www.paddocktalk.com and I found the same thing. The teams did not like the pit lane, nor did I. It was far too narrow...it would be alright if the fueling equipment was not there, but it was far too hard to get to the pit garage that you needed...but it was something that you get used to. The pit lane exit is too short, but what can you do about that.

The crowd was disappointingly small too but there could be many things going into that...great for those who came but bad the track. I too did not want to stay in the media centre and went out to the track a lot to see it there and found it difficult to keep up with what happens. Screens could be an answer but something definately needs to be done. The light system from the ALMS should be used here too.

The teams did put on a great show and should be congratulated. I really enjoyed the weekend and it is one of the better events that I have covered so far but things could be improved in the future...being there still beat watching it on TV (or nothing if you don't have MotorsTV) Or now broadband since the Le Mans Series did a master effort of showing it on their site.

[Ayreon]

I'm a bit puzzled by the comments about not being able to see the cars in the garages - we were there both days and managed to wander into the garages without any problem.
I agree that following the race was really difficult though - we had to resort to looking at the timing screens in the pits because the commentary was so hard to hear. At the FIA GT meeting at Silverstone there is at least an illuminated display giving the top 6 positions, although I found that race hard to follow too.
We're off to Jarama next month where presumably the commentary will not only be inaudible but also in Spanish..... any tips on how to tell what's going on would be gratefully received!

[The Tour]

Before we make it sound all doom and gloom I think the point of what we are all saying is that the on track action (and thanks to my friends from Drinking for Holland ) and the campsite was great but we were maybe let down by the organisers, etc.

In my opinion it is the marketing of such an event that is really poor. Maybe if Donington had pre-tickets sales of 20,000+ then maybe they would have spent more on facilities (although I am not overly confident of that) so these tracks have got to do more on getting people through the gates in the 1st place. Both go hand in hand however as to get general fans to come you have to offer them something other than a grass bank to watch cars go round.

Sportscar racing is the greatest but if you dont know what is going on it can actually become quite frustrating. We are clearly all dedicated to it but imagine travelling to your 1st sportscar race yesterday. Would they have known they needed a radio, packed lunch, abacus, lap counter, stop watch, chair, etc.

Anyway, all in all, loved it. Great performance by Creation, RML, Team Modena and Team LNT. At least Britain can do it on the track, we have just got to beat those damn Pesci's! !

[The Tour]

Originally Posted by Ayreon

We're off to Jarama next month where presumably the commentary will not only be inaudible but also in Spanish..... any tips on how to tell what's going on would be gratefully received!

Good luck in Jarama Ayreon. Your only hope is having a friend at home I guess. When we was at the Spa 24 Hours I made sure my brother was online at home looking at the live timings. I recieved regular text messages to keep me posted. Costly but it was pretty vital!!!

[canam]

At the ALMS, I have seen people walking around with old gameboy consols that hae a programme that is linked into the lap time screens. They can walk around the track and keep up with action easily. Is this available for the LMS.

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by chocmonster7

As for attendance, I have never been able to work out why 100,000+ British people who claim to be racing fans can make it over to Le Mans yet can't be bothered to go to their local race.

Originally Posted by The Tour

The great British public seems to be staying away, which is really dissapointing...When speaking to Tommy Erdos on Friday night he said that it is really upsetting looking up to see hardly any fans trackside and wants to know why so few attend when we take 100,000 odd to Le Mans? He was extremely interested in the event from a fans point of view and so were many more. Maybe this thread can help to give them some of the answers why...........

Join the club, the lack of numbers is something which has always perplexed me. It is a bit of a paradox really. Perhaps the thousands who go to Le Mans aren't that much into sportscars afterall maybe they go for the atmosphere they've heard so much about. Personally, I can't see how any sportscar fan can turn down the opportunity to see these cars! . I get to see them twice a year: Le Mans and the LMS round.

Perhaps most fans had made other plans as it was the bank holiday weekend. But then that doesn't explain the previous low attendances. The whole thing reminds me of the DTM stint at Donington. I actually did ponder what the drivers would make of the sparse crowd when I was at the Melbourne during morning warm up.

However silly this might sound, I feel some sort of obligation to support the series/sport because I love it and I want to see it around for years to come.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by eddsc

Sadly, it's hard to imagine the race returning to Donington Park, with the congestion and dangers in the pit lane.
I've never heard of signal problems with Donington Park radio - but if it was coming and going, that must have been very frustrating.
It was a reasonable crowd, but if it was a one-off event, then the circuit was unlikely to have made much of an effort with such as a large screen.
Will the UK get a Le Mans Series race next year? It's scandalous that the event didn't return to Silverstone - not that I'm a great Silverstone fan (van?), but that's where the race should be held.
MC

Silverstone?

I'd build a housing estate on that place!

They should only have an LMS race if they put in some effort, which they may well do if they can smell the money from Audi and Peugeot.

As a spectator at the track the cars looked spectacular, whil on TV it looked even better. The whole six hours was very entertaining.

But judging by teams comments it's either Brands or Silverstone.

[Tim the Grey]

I have to agree with the many comments about a lack of communication out there.
My 17 year old is a HUGE GT fan, and he was struggling to identify who was where, after about an hour.
Me, I took a sabbatical for a few years, but am getting back into things, and I really struggled, owing to a lack of familiarity with names and lids.
Gawd knows what the punters thought (Though several were happily sleeping things off in the sun!) if they'd never seen a 6 hour race before.

I think SOME sort of spectator boards, maybe doubling as TV screens would help, maybe a local TV broadcast, a la radio output? After all, lots of folk have portable tellys these days? Some lateral thinking needed to get race info out to the paying punter I think?

I have to say, from marshalling at ETCC races in the early 80s, Donington pits aren't clever with refuelling rigs in place... and haven't really changed? But where would you put them otherwise?

Finally, Donington DID work, fantastic racing, even if the track seemed narrow at times, with some VERY wide GT cars getting under the LMP boys feet...

I have some pictures to put up, soon.

Tim

[JAG]

Originally Posted by The Tour

Boys and Girls,

After speaking with quite a few teams and drivers over the weekend I had been asked to start a thread by an unamed Team Manager on Donington not being suitable for the LMS for drivers, teams and fans.

These teams are interested in gaining feedback and this thread seems to be pretty much what they were looking for so I will pass this link to those involved in the LMS.

My understanding is that from a teams point of view the pits are completely inadequate. There are mini slopes between each pit that the prototypes bottom out on. No permanent electricity/hot water alledgedly and the fuel rig arrangements were also regarded as ridiculous (these are not my opinions by the way)

Turning out attention to us, the fans. Well I am becoming ever more embarassed by so called world class events being staged here in this country.

Our podcast was lucky enough to have access to the Media Centre although believe me the stigma that comes with a fans podcast being in the media centre makes it far less enjoyable than being trackside with the fans. Even though I had access to the media centre I wanted to spend most of my time around the circuit and I would have to agree that the information, facilities and general look around the place left me feeling like I was watching a club event as opposed to watching 40+ of the best sportscars on earth.

The great British public seems to be staying away, which is really dissapointing but I suppose with the treatment they recieve and the terrible marketing of such an event then it is hardly surprising. It really does seem though that the Sportscar community is concerned about our welfare even if the circuits are not so any comments made may help us in the future.

When speaking to Tommy Erdos on Friday night he said that it is really upsetting looking up to see hardly any fans trackside and wants to know why so few attend when we take 100,000 odd to Le Mans? He was extremely interested in the event from a fans point of view and so were many more. Maybe this thread can help to give them some of the answers why...........

Sorry, I seem to have written an essay. Anyway a complete review of the weekend will be online from tomorrow in our latest podcast, see http://tourpodcast.googlepages.com/

Were can I start!

Thankfully the teams seem to have been listened to and Istanbul has been dropped, now can someone explain why emerging 'sportscar' markets like Holland and Denmark/Scandinvia are not being offered a race?

Each year the ACO proudly claims x percentage of the crowd is made up of Dutch/Danes yet they take the LMS to Istanbul or Italy!

Each time Patrick Peter is interviewed he claims the series is designed for the competitors first, and it's upto circuits/manufactuers to promote races. Maybe if the teams themselves pointed out they wish to race in front of more than a handful of spectators the ACO/Peter may put some form of central promotion in place?

Why weren't car owners clubs invited to Donington, the infield should have been filled with displays from Porsche, Ferrari, TVR, MG, Jaguar etc. Not only would it boost spectators numbers, it would also bring a little colour and interest to the baron Donington infield.

As has been mentioned, the 3 light ALMS system is absolutely ESSENTIAL, how are fans meant to keep up with things? A few leaderboard displays
(owned by the series and took to each round) dotted around the circuit would make a huge difference.

The series also needs some kind of 'LMS Entertainment Zone' infield that could be taken to each round. Nothing fancy, just a few car displays, poster giveaways, maybe some displays showing official timing, trade stands, somewhere fans can sit down, have a drink/food, and take a break.

How about a couple of driving sim pods?

I have noticed RML and Creation have had similar setups a couple of times.



A non profit LMS racing simulation is currently being produced by these guys, http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=LMS , for the PC game rFactor.

GTR, the official FIA GT game, started off similarly before being given official backing by the teams/series. Now its a high profile commercial game.

The teams and cars up and down the paddock are faultless, the product is now top class, all we need is for the teams/ACO/Peter to get together and put a few simple initiatives in place to ensure the 'event' has the same professional presentation as the competitors.

[TheNewBob]

I happen to think the public will be better catered for once Audi and Peugeot become involved. Not only will there be more public interest but also more money flying around to improve the show for the spectators.

I think the F1-Live website has a text message service (my brother uses it) which gives practice, qualifying and race results upon completion of a session in case your busy during the race weekend or something on those lines. How useful would it be to have a similar sort of service setup with hourly race updates for the LMS races?

I also remember during the Powertour days of British F3/GT they started handing out little radios with the programmes so you could hear the commentary during the GT race. Only cheap little things, but they only needed to last for one afternoon, which in anycase was better than nothing.

Maybe once manufacturer money starts floating around then these small-but-handy features will become available?

I did notice the infield was pretty much completely empty other than a little bit of car parking. Even in the FIA GT and Powertour days (basically between 2000 and 2004) they had small displays there.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

I happen to think the public will be better catered for once Audi and Peugeot become involved. Not only will there be more public interest but also more money flying around to improve the show for the spectators.

Indeed, how many people can associate with a "pescarolo" a "zytek" or a "creation" if it wins? Audi and Peugeot are brand names......reaching a mass audience,

[isynge]

Originally Posted by henk4

Indeed, how many people can associate with a "pescarolo" a "zytek" or a "creation" if it wins? Audi and Peugeot are brand names......reaching a mass audience,

Initially I'd have disagreed, but based on the comments of the couple of guys I went to Donington with I think this goes right to the heart of the issue.

While both are keen enough on cars, they weren't what you could call sportscar diehards, and their basic outlook was
- the flat looking racing cars don't look very nice
- hard to tell the difference between LMP1 and LMP2
- Easier to identify with the road based cars

So - based on this, roll on prototype coupes in LMP1, and headline manufacturer involvement.

If we compare the Donington experience to DTM at Brands Hatch, the addition of couple of manufacturer pavilions (Audi and Peugeot would be a good start) and perhaps more of an effort by other suppliers akin to what Bruichladdich tried to do (even if I still can't quite work out what the brand message is there, scantily clad blondes and premium priced single malt - hmmm) would go a long way.

[Tim the Grey]

The Bruichladdich message got to me, but then I was in the distillery in May...
Hmmm. 1979 Highland Park in their warehouse 2! Bliss...

What got me was, Brooky sponsoring a Radical team in the Radical race, a Radical in the main show, blondes trying to fit into very little gear (I have a picture of the pervs, sorry, photogs at the start!), so where WAS the stand? Believe me, I looked all round the place...

I always thought the idea of sponsorship is to SELL stuff?

Confused of Banbury.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

(I have a picture of the pervs, sorry, photogs at the start!),

I was carrying the appropriate number 69. Am I in the shot?

[Mal]

I would like to see it moved to one of Johnathan Palmers circuits - especially Brands Hatch.

He seems to have grasped the value of local promotion far better - I regularly see trailers parked in fields by the motorways in Kent and Essex promoting events at brands, I have heard ads on local radio in London promoting upcvoming events.

To do all this for a le Mans based event would have a good impact in london -
Then they promote it as a family event with funfairs and entertainment for kids - place some of the burger vans and bars closer to the track with seating adjacent to the circuit where you can sit and eat / drinks whilst watching and listening to the sights and smells of Sportcar racing - put a timing screen adjacent to each of these areas so people can sit down, eat, drink and catch up on the race at the same time and position them like staging posts around the track - to make the oppurtunity of a six hour race to wander around the track to find different vantage points a more bearable experience - and lastly avoid the Bank Holiday weekend unless you are going to make a proper weekend event of it

[JAG]

I hope we are not talking to ourselves and teams/officials take notice.

The extra efforts by the likes of RML, Creation, LNT, Bruichladdich etc. are noted and make a big difference.

If there was an infield offficial LMS zone we may even be able to pick up team merchandise.

[Flat12-Aircool]

Originally Posted by Mal

I would like to see it moved to one of Johnathan Palmers circuits - especially Brands Hatch.

He seems to have grasped the value of local promotion far better - I regularly see trailers parked in fields by the motorways in Kent and Essex promoting events at brands, I have heard ads on local radio in London promoting upcvoming events.

I agree, MSV seem to have a better handle on how to stage an event. Donington and to some extent Silverstone could do worse than look at what MSV are doing. I mean you couldn't even pre-book via the internet with Donington, and even if you phoned up there was no early booking discount only Booking Fees and postage charges.

Only downside for me personally is that Brands Hatch involves quite a bit of travelling to get there. And I dare say there's quite a few others on this forum who would have to travel even farther than me.

I hope MSV get it in 2008 with a re-developed Snetterton.

[FIRE]

No British F3/British GT at MSV circuits so there's room for LMS
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87840

[JAG]

Originally Posted by FIRE

No British F3/British GT at MSV circuits so there's room for LMS
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87840

Oh dear, maybe the nail in the coffin for BGT!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JAG

I hope we are not talking to ourselves and teams/officials take notice.

TICKET SALES at events are what promotors and sponsors look at. Then TV coverage ratings, again for the sponsors.

Sponsors also want a great track with great facilties to bring guests and employees to the races. There could be the greatest circuit around but not have the infrastructure, roads, hotels, resturants, hospitality areas, races promotors wont go there.

[Ayr]

On the whole I had a brilliant day at Donington; great racing, great circuit.

But...
A radio was essential. I would have been lost within a hour otherwise as the lappery started so early. I was in the grandstand when JCW took the lead about three quarters of an hour in and was clapping and cheering, I looked round to see I was just about the only one, everyone else didn't seem to know what was happening just a murmur of 'was that for the lead?'.

There is no cover. I didn't mind standing in the rain for two hours for the BGT but if it had been raining on Sunday it could have been pretty tiresome after six hours. Also no cover for the sun, leading onto..

No merchandise. I wanted to buy a cap to stop my forehead from going so crispy but I couldn't find anything. A Creation or Corvette or Bruishladdich or just a Michelin one would have been fine.