Persistant problems with all LMS races for spectators

[rdjones]

I don't think that the LMS would fit in Brands Hatch, sadly.

It is also worth remembering the LMS is co-promoted my one S Ratel and as him and Mr Palmer don't seem to be able to agree a deal for BGT/F3 to go the MSV tracks, I can't see it happening.

[chocmonster7]

Originally Posted by Flat12-Aircool

Only downside for me personally is that Brands Hatch involves quite a bit of travelling to get there. And I dare say there's quite a few others on this forum who would have to travel even farther than me.

You're right with that point, I for one, however much I love sportscars, couldn't justify going all the way down to Brands to see them. A trip to Donington or Silverstone can be done in a day, Brands would mean an overnight stop and more expense.

[Marky]

Brands would be perfect for the race they have hosted GT,s before and years ago for the 1000k,s Group C,s so cant see why they cant now got a couple of fast straights good corners good spectating. and run by some one who nows how to promote and run a decent race weekend

[Suze]

To be fair chocmonster, all depends where you are and it's one of those "never can win" situations!

Brands could work well, but depends how SRO can work with Palmer. Wouldn't mind seeing LMS on the Brands GP track though....

[The Badger]

What would it require to have a LMS race at Brands with respect to venue mods ?

One of the best tracks in the world in my opinion .

If they can have street races in other countries , surely the pits at Brands are better than that provided at street races ?

Bring back Brands .

DSC are reporting Monza will be back on the calander for 2007 ..... brilliant !

[Marky]

cant see them needing to do to much really. the pits are good enough. got a lot of run off.
just space behind the pits is a little limited i supose

[canam]

Brands would be great but I don't think the GP circuit has the proper international license. It just purely is not safe enough (by current standards)/
the pit complex is also too small to deal adequately with 50 plus sportscars.

From a spectator point of view, Brands would be better than Donington (which is better than Silverstone). Local noise controls and lack of safety suggest that this just will not happen.

[neiltbag]

Over here in the US, ALMS always seems to draw a decent amount of spectators in spite of rather thin grids. I was absolutely shocked at how empty Donington looked when I saw the MotorsTV highlights. I mean this was one of the best endurance fields we've seen in ages, yet there were about 5 people there to see it. And from the sounds of it, none of those 5 people had a good time.

Yes, big screens are expensive, which is why ALMS has 3 or 4 of those "dot matrix"-type screens positioned around the track. Much cheaper than the truck-mounted giant TVs, easy to transport and set-up, and capable of communicating the current standings.

The light system is elementary, I see no reason why the LMS doesn't have that.

As a musician I understand that sadly, promotion is generally more important these days than quality product, the ALMS being a perfect example. However, if you have quality product (like the LMS) AND you promote it properly, well that's gold dust!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by neiltbag

As a musician I understand that sadly, promotion is generally more important these days than quality product, the ALMS being a perfect example. However, if you have quality product (like the LMS) AND you promote it properly, well that's gold dust!

That may sound like one of the key eliments is event promotion. Plus race cars ( or the likeness of) cars that spectators can purchase , GT1 and GT2 and a place for manfacutres to test new ideas, P1 and P2. Yet still realtively affordable for the Indpendants.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by neiltbag

Over here in the US, ALMS always seems to draw a decent amount of spectators in spite of rather thin grids. I was absolutely shocked at how empty Donington looked when I saw the MotorsTV highlights. I mean this was one of the best endurance fields we've seen in ages, yet there were about 5 people there to see it. And from the sounds of it, none of those 5 people had a good time.

Yes, big screens are expensive, which is why ALMS has 3 or 4 of those "dot matrix"-type screens positioned around the track. Much cheaper than the truck-mounted giant TVs, easy to transport and set-up, and capable of communicating the current standings.

The light system is elementary, I see no reason why the LMS doesn't have that.

As a musician I understand that sadly, promotion is generally more important these days than quality product, the ALMS being a perfect example. However, if you have quality product (like the LMS) AND you promote it properly, well that's gold dust!

The difference between the US and Europe, from my perspective at least, is that European series can be left to grow naturally for a couple of years before the manufactuers and big bucks come in and take the series to the next level.

In the US it seems series like the ALMS need to hit the ground running or they'll flop.

Maybe the ALMS is suffering now (grid sizes) because factory teams arrived very early in the series' life, scaring off many smaller privateers. If they had a few more years to bed in, or had previous IMSA GTP experience like Dyson, they maybe could have handled the increased factory competition.

Certainly in Europe the likes of Creation and Pescarolo have benefited from the lack of factory competition, improving year on year with a level playing field.

Just MAYBE they have what it takes to put up a strong fight against factory Audis and Peugeots in 2007.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Flat12-Aircool

Only downside for me personally is that Brands Hatch involves quite a bit of travelling to get there. And I dare say there's quite a few others on this forum who would have to travel even farther than me.

I hope MSV get it in 2008 with a re-developed Snetterton.

We ll I can say the same for Donnington as it is 160 odd miles from me - Brands Hatch is about 15 miles!

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Mal

We ll I can say the same for Donnington as it is 160 odd miles from me - Brands Hatch is about 15 miles!

why have races in the UK in the first place?
Very expensive and now tedious travelling, high prices everywhere.....Spa, Zolder, the LeMans Bugatti track, the Ring and the A1 ring.....might be a good schedule.

[TheNewBob]

Straight answer for that is a decent number of British-based teams, and circuits the drivers enjoy racing on.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Straight answer for that is a decent number of British-based teams, and circuits the drivers enjoy racing on.

correct but the issue was about accessiblity for the public....

[isynge]

Originally Posted by henk4

correct but the issue was about accessiblity for the public....

To be fair, the UK's not badly served as far as access to circuits is concerned. Like Mal I'm a lot closer to Brands than Donington, but it being on a bank holiday meant it was fairly straightforward to get up there and back. The M1 is right there and there's a reasonably international airport in walking distance of it. Silverstone has a dedicated spur of motorway going straight to it, and while access roads to Brands Hatch leave a little to be desired MSV seem to organise things reasonably well - getting to DTM there this summer was perfectly doable without too much delay.

As far as people showing up was concerned, I'd argue there were more at Donington than either Istanbul (no surprise) or Nurburgring. Combine this with the number of British teams, the potential size of the British market for sponsors/suppliers to sell to, and the overall knowledgability of British fans I think the UK does its bit to justify an LMS round.

As I've said elsewhere in this thread, I think Donington got it mostly right. Leaving aside the pit issue, which I think is a fair criticism of the track, I'd say they were about 80% there. Instead of chucking the baby out with the bath water wouldn't it be better to focus on ways of resolving some of the promotional and presentational factors in the LMS?

[henk4]

Originally Posted by isynge

To be fair, the UK's not badly served as far as access to circuits is concerned. Like Mal I'm a lot closer to Brands than Donington, but it being on a bank holiday meant it was fairly straightforward to get up there and back. The M1 is right there and there's a reasonably international airport in walking distance of it. Silverstone has a dedicated spur of motorway going straight to it, and while access roads to Brands Hatch leave a little to be desired MSV seem to organise things reasonably well - getting to DTM there this summer was perfectly doable without too much delay.

If you take a look at my domicile you may understand that my concern is not accessibility of the individual tracks, but rather of the UK in general...

[isynge]

Originally Posted by henk4

If you take a look at my domicile you may understand that my concern is not accessibility of the individual tracks, but rather of the UK in general...

Damn, the channel catches us out once again!

[AU N EGL]

Would the event promotor and his ability to attain sponsorship money be more important then the track? Events need large amounts of upfront cash to be put on. Then the spaying pectators and TV rights though advertsing help pay the promotor back.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by henk4

why have races in the UK in the first place?
Very expensive and now tedious travelling, high prices everywhere.....Spa, Zolder, the LeMans Bugatti track, the Ring and the A1 ring.....might be a good schedule.

With the amount of support the UK teams and fans have given lemans since 1923 then I think it must be the first place to be given a race - however it needs to be promoted and supported - I know I cant talk because I didnt go however a race so far away on the bank holiday weekend, when I have a young family is not an easy option.

[AU N EGL]

Talk is cheap.

If you love ALMS GT, ELMS GT or FIA GT races, how far would you travel to watch a live race?? and how much entry fee would you pay to specatate ??

Or would you watch all the races on TV?

[henk4]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Talk is cheap.

If you love ALMS GT, ELMS GT or FIA GT races, how far would you travel to watch a live race?? and how much entry fee would you pay to specatate ??

Or would you watch all the races on TV?

My answer is cheap too. Being a member of the press I get free entry.

[JAG]

'As far as people showing up was concerned, I'd argue there were more at Donington than either Istanbul (no surprise) or Nurburgring'

Let's get things into perspective, while the Donington crowd wasn't large, or anywhere near it's potential, it wasn't poor, I would say around 15,000. I've seen numerous reports comment on the better than expected (compared to other LMS rounds) turnout.

Istanbul - less than 1000, a complete non event and apparently off the 2007 calender.

Spa - 25,000? Lots of potential

Nurburgring - 10,000? Important market for the manufactuers

Monza (2004-2005) - Under 10,000, but deserves a place on the calender for history alone.

Donington attracted 35,000 for the 2004 FIA GT race, thanks to sponsorship and a big promotional effort. When Audi and Peugeot provide the funds for promotion, whichever circuit hosts the UK round will see a significant increase in attendance, profile and media attention.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by henk4

My answer is cheap too. Being a member of the press I get free entry.

Part of the press? How about a story from the sponsors persective?? Of course that means contating the many many sponsors and asking them what and why they sponsor these races? what they like about the races and what they would like too additionally see at the races??

[henk4]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Part of the press? How about a story from the sponsors persective?? Of course that means contating the many many sponsors and asking them what and why they sponsor these races? what they like about the races and what they would like too additionally see at the races??

That is more of a job for an advertising agency...

[Graham Goodwin]

I disagree - Its a good story to put the appeal (or otherwise) of this sort of racing for sponsors into perspective.

I wrote something along those lines several years ago around the Brit GTs and John Guest.

Fact is - We have a long thread here and elsewhere bemoaning the lack of facilities, the lack of promotion etc etc - The role of the media is to report and comment - In my book that should go way beyond just a photo gallery and a race report, it includes the surrounding picture.

Unless you scrape away the layers of reasoning why things aren't as good as they could or should be they are simply never going to change.