DMN / LMA Front Runner ~Torque/Bhp ?

[TheDonSansone]

What sorts of car performance figures are we talking about in Class A's B's and C's does a racer need nowdays to compete with front runners?

[andypipe]

Dont know about LMA but DMN probably the following
Class A Inexcess of 500
Class B 400-500
Class C 250-300
Class D 190-220
Class E up to 200

I may be wrong though as a lot of other things come into acount like power to weight ratio etc

[TheDonSansone]

Originally Posted by andypipe

Dont know about LMA but DMN probably the following
Class A Inexcess of 500
Class B 400-500
Class C 250-300
Class D 190-220
Class E up to 200

I may be wrong though as a lot of other things come into acount like power to weight ratio etc

Thanks Andypipe... yes the p-w ratio is more important for sure, I'm keen to get a feel for the type of torque band values the guys are getting as this makes a big difference to driving style, cornering and gear ratios !

[nyssa7]

This years class winners and nearly-winners in LMA:

Class A:
1st: Ford Escort Cosworth, approx 500bhp and 4wd
2nd: Noble M12, reputedly around 550bhp
Other contenders - Super Touring cars, supercharged Lotus Exiges (300bhp and weigh in ounces?)

Class B:
1st: Seat Leon - 2007/8 car. 300bhp and works aero package, sequential box, 2 pedals
2nd: Marcos Mantis - ex works racer, 6 litre engine, your guess as good as mine as to power but probably over 500 with torque to match?
3rd: Renault Clio Cup - by virtue of having doen all races and picked up points consistently
Other contenders - BMW M3, Talbot Lotus Sunbeam -power unknown

Class C:
1st: BMW M3 - doubt its got 300bhp
2nd: Rover Tomcat - maybe 240bhp
3rd: Vauxhall vectra Challenge car - anywhere between 220 and 300+ depending on the car. Any of these could have won the class with proper reliability and full attendance

Most likely but not definate that Leons will move up a class for 2009, Clios maybe down a class as they run quite close to the Vectras

But if you want to run at the front, you need a Noble, and Exige or a Cossie Escort if this year is anything to judge by

[KAM]

I think the DMN is turning into quite a power series, everyone wants to beat Rod lol
To win class A on either, you need to have the right mixture of reliability, power and talent. I dont have any of the above so went for a small engined car
I'm looking at roughly 180-210bhp and a very light car to enter Class C on LMA, I dont know how this will compare to the bigger powered cars but it will be fun whatever I can see me struggling at Snetterton and places like Silverstone, thruxton (if they go there??)

[nyssa7]

KAM

Current LMA Class C winning cars are all big and heavy-ish

Put 200bhp in something less than 1000kgs that handles and it could be interesting. Or a sub 1750cc "modified" car, something like Andy McLennans Suzuki (seriously) Swift comes to mind - only raced with us a couple of times (refugee from Hot Hatch). Then get the weight down nearer the limit (675kgs, 600 if sub 1500cc)

[graham bahr]

complicated subject, in DMN

on the face of it you need 500bhp for class A but then again, as yet the megga megga horsepower skylines havnt managed to take the fight all the way to the front simply because they are not fast enough around or out of the twisty bits and a 300bhp BTCC car will lap brands considerably faster than any of our current class A cars so its not all about power

likewise class B, true some of the class be cars have near 500bhp but on balence the much lower powered seats have often beaten the more powerfull cars, because the big power cars either broke or again just didnt have the corner speed

class C 250 bhp should be very competitive, unless your up against richard brent LOL!

class D 180-200 should do it

class e 160-170

[Eric Falce]

200 bhp X 1000 Kilos or less,what class Graham.

[R59]

Note how Eric takes holesaw and sets off towards XR2 in garage with a glint in his eye.....

[Al Weyman]

I think a lightweight reasonably powerful little un will always beat a big heavy very powerful RWD car add FWD to the equation and the lighter car will be unbeatable. It is not at all just about engine power, take my cars fair old bit of power yet I have to back out the throttle all the time coming out of bends as it either lights up the back wheels or as happened in the wet at Silverstone turns into the pit wall (ouch!). Then there is the breaking side of it, a much lighter car will always pull up better with out locking wheels and of course the handling will always be better. So IMHO big BHP figures although sexy and look good on the spec sheet dont neccessarily cut it especially if there is the slightest hint of a damp or greasy track (95% of the time).

[R59]

You need a proper diff in that car Mr Weyman.

[Al Weyman]

Yer probably right! I thought I had done the head gasket in at Brands at the weekend when I had it timed up wrong (write 1000 times I must disconnect vacuum advance when timing up engine!!) and she got a little warm but just did a proper gas analysis test of the rad water and no sign of any exhaust gases so it looks like I got away with it. It looked worse on the day as the over flow pipe had blown off the catch tank and was pouring water over the hot exhaust.

[R59]

Perfect Preparation Prevents P Poor Performance
(I use the same phrase, but usually three words are moved)

[Al Weyman]

In an ideal world you are of course right but trying to do it all on my own evenings and weekends and I only got her up and running at 9.30pm on the Saturday it just does not work out sometimes.

[R59]

9:30 - ton's of time left. Luxury!

First time Harry went out (and promptly broke) I arrived at Silverstone at 0130hrs, after leaving the workshop at 0030hrs!!

[Eric Falce]

154 bhp x 13 stone 9 pounds.
154 bhp x 14 stone 8 pounds.
How much extra bhp will I need to make up the loss or gain whichever way you look at it and is anyone else in my predicament!

[jerryk]

Originally Posted by Eric Falce

154 bhp x 13 stone 9 pounds.
154 bhp x 14 stone 8 pounds.
How much extra bhp will I need to make up the loss or gain whichever way you look at it and is anyone else in my predicament!

you fat tart Eric

[jonbryant]

Originally Posted by jerryk

you fat tart Eric

[Eric Falce]

Originally Posted by jonbryant

Constructive comments gentlemen please other wise I will have to report you to my little nephew.

[R59]

You have increased your rolling weight by 13lb, or 5.8Kg.

What is the "race-going" weight of your car, so we can work out the percentage?

A gallon of petrol weighs roughly 7lb, so you could just carry 2 gallons less.

Man that's a lot of Turkey this year!

[Eric Falce]

750 kilos or there abouts,and it wasnt the turkey it started long before the festive season,something to do with placating swmbo by having breakfast,lunch and dinner then finishing off with a late night snack,port and a coffee.
But good news,have the CVH engine all back together with new oil pump and bearings so that is all refreshed,the twin cam is all but ready to be dynoed,may put that in the Escort to see how it goes,new rear springs and a little sorting out on the suspension and maybe borrow a certain x flow engine,but will discussthat at the d/d,happy new year everyone.

[R59]

Cut out the Coffee. That's where the problem lies.

You need about 2-3 more horsepower then.

[Eric Falce]

The cheese and chocolate biscuits dont help either.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by jerryk

you fat tart Eric

A little less of the fat from you if you don't mind Mr K.

[jerryk]

Originally Posted by Eric Falce

154 bhp x 13 stone 9 pounds.
154 bhp x 14 stone 8 pounds.

what truly amazes me Eric is that normally you are either talking non stop or sleeping , how did you manage to get the food in ?