[Rules] Budget cap,2010 regs confirmed

[Marbot]

£40 mil is what you'll have to find to run your very own F1 team.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...c_290409a.aspx

[ECW Dan Selby]

So 30 was too little, afterall. That's unfortunate, and I hope it's not enough to scare interest away.

Selby

[Fox89]

£40 still seems pretty reasonable to me! To major companies looking to come into the sport I reckon they'll still be interested.

What I'm NOT sure about is the lack of refueling during the race. Whilst it's nice to have it all done on the race track, what this will mean is that the slower cars can't run light, so they'll just be stuck at the back. I'm worried that this will make it a bit too processional again.

[bravo]

This figure covers all team expenditure except:

Fines or penalties imposed by the FIA

love it.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Fox89

What I'm NOT sure about is the lack of refueling during the race. Whilst it's nice to have it all done on the race track, what this will mean is that the slower cars can't run light, so they'll just be stuck at the back. I'm worried that this will make it a bit too processional again.

What you have to consider is that they are cutting back race times from about two hours to about a hour and a half (or something to that effect). So if they lengthen the chassis for a larger fuel tank, I see it unsuitable to refuel in a race. I don't think it will be a bit too proscessional as most teams will be using KERS so there will be a heck of a lot more passing.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by Razor

What you have to consider is that they are cutting back race times from about two hours to about a hour and a half (or something to that effect). So if they lengthen the chassis for a larger fuel tank, I see it unsuitable to refuel in a race. I don't think it will be a bit too proscessional as most teams will be using KERS so there will be a heck of a lot more passing.

The race shortening is not going to happen, it was only a rejected FOTA idea. it will still be 305km at all circuits apart from Monaco, which will be 260km.

Originally Posted by stedevil

1) There are already rules in place for when and how much you can spend on next years car. Read the Q&A.

2) Currency Im sure won't be a big problem. Most teams are in Britain, and the rest for sure will have good enough rules to govern that issue. Even big companies can insure themselves for currency fluctuations, so I'm sure a small business like an F1 team can as well.

I think the rule is that you choose a currency, and the amount is fixed when the cap is set.

Interestingly, the rules contain the Most Wins idea but that isn't highlighted in pink in the tracked changes version.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Interestingly, the rules contain the Most Wins idea but that isn't highlighted in pink in the tracked changes version.

Indeed. Must be because that decision was taken before 2009 season and only allowed to be vetoed for the 2009 season by the teams since it came so late. Personally though I hope the issue will be taken up once more for a new vote now when the WMSC actually know the truth about what both teams and the general public (the spokes person in for the teams in WMSC happens to be Bernie and not a FOTA representative, which explains a lot...).

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

£40 mil is what you'll have to find to run your very own F1 team.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...c_290409a.aspx

Its actually a lot more than that. Admirable though it is, this budget 'cap' has more holes than a collendar ! It doesn't include engines, driver salaries and anything outside of the teams' control. On top of that, compliance with this cap is optional !

Have you seen the bit about financial aid for new entrants. I love this one :

" It will also offer 20 economy class air tickets for each new team for events held outside Europe. "

I was on a Varig flight to Sao Paulo about three years ago and the entire Williams team, along with a ton of Renault personnel locked out the business and first class sections of the plane !

Looks like there'll be a business class championship and an economy class championship in 2010

[FPV GTHO]

Exempting the driver salaries gives Alonso and Raikkonen a chance of driving for a capped team at least.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Exempting the driver salaries gives Alonso and Raikkonen a chance of driving for a capped team at least.

What's the point ? The whole idea was to reduce the cost of competing in F1, if there are items of significant value outside the scope of the cap, then it doesn't make any sense. I don't know why they couldn't introduce driver salary caps too... as they do in US baseball etc...

[ivanalesi]

I think it's a great day for F1 and racing in general It's a awesome idea. Also the technical regulations for the cost capped teams mean you're pretty much doomed if you don't go cost capped! The only thing that I'm not so optimistic is this commision. I thought it was going to be some of the big auditors, not a 3 men team. May be they will need a lot more people, but I guess it's enough for them to spot the potential breach and then take onboard more experts to investigate. Another plus to have such company onboard is the license issue, if you cover someone - you can very easily risk loosing it! And they don't care much about 40 mil companies to risk it

Originally Posted by davyboy

What's the point ? The whole idea was to reduce the cost of competing in F1, if there are items of significant value outside the scope of the cap, then it doesn't make any sense. I don't know why they couldn't introduce driver salary caps too... as they do in US baseball etc...

I guess the reason behind this is the junior ladder(note driver programs are excluded too), there are many people willing to finance young careers in order to gain in the future. If you cap the drivers' salary, then many won't have this initiative to finance careers. With unlimited testing, you can easily try a lot of young talents like Minardi used to do and you won't care much about Fernando or Kimi I know a funny case, where the father of one driver agreed to finance his career because he specifically thought his son could be taking Kimi's salary in 6 years!

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by 2010 Technical Regulations article 9.1

ARTICLE 9 : TRANSMISSION SYSTEM
9.1 Transmission types :
No transmission system may permit more than two wheels to be driven.
This Article will not apply to Cost-Regulated Teams.

Unless I need to go to specsavers very fast, that's four wheel drive.

Will we see this used? The minimum weight is now 620kg. Would the packaging work? 4WD with movable wings and superKERS could be somewhat dominant ...

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Unless I need to go to specsavers very fast, that's four wheel drive.

Will we see this used? The minimum weight is now 620kg. Would the packaging work? 4WD with movable wings and superKERS could be somewhat dominant ...

Perhaps this opens the door to putting KERS straight on the front wheels, for electrical systems this could be a simpler solution than adding it to the drive train and has a number of advantages including 4WD out of the corners which means you can get the KERS power on while the Rears are still traction limited with engine power alone.

[awrb]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Unless I need to go to specsavers very fast, that's four wheel drive.

Will we see this used? The minimum weight is now 620kg. Would the packaging work? 4WD with movable wings and superKERS could be somewhat dominant ...

NO transmission can give 4wd, it says. But it does leave the door open to be FWD or even 1WD if you wanted, which would be pretty crazy, and certainly more spectacular as cars veer off the track!

[Yannick]

Abolishing tyre warmers is dangerous nonsense, especially when starting with a fuel load that is meant to last for the whole race distance.
And why abolish fuel strategy now that it's contributing to offering variety?
Won't it be necessary for safety reasons to decrease cornering speeds again come the end of next season ?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Yannick

Abolishing tyre warmers is dangerous nonsense, especially when starting with a fuel load that is meant to last for the whole race distance.
And why abolish fuel strategy now that it's contributing to offering variety?
Won't it be necessary for safety reasons to decrease cornering speeds again come the end of next season ?

That is simply not true
No tyre warmers is not a problem

Back in the CART days tyre warmers were banned at Indy and other CART racers and they never contributed to serious crashes or incidents. Drivers drive to the grip conditions. It just shows what a nonsense a lot of the current F1 policies and policies are.
Driving on cold tyres is something every driver learns to do in karts or junior formulae.
In effect, if it were true, it would mean you could never go onto a harder tyre in a race because it would have less grip....

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

That is simply not true
No tyre warmers is not a problem

Back in the CART days tyre warmers were banned at Indy and other CART racers and they never contributed to serious crashes or incidents. Drivers drive to the grip conditions. It just shows what a nonsense a lot of the current F1 policies and policies are.
Driving on cold tyres is something every driver learns to do in karts or junior formulae.
In effect, if it were true, it would mean you could never go onto a harder tyre in a race because it would have less grip....

Since a set of F1 tyre warmers is about £1000, what's the saving? A few grand? Fairly insignificant I would have thought.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Since a set of F1 tyre warmers is about £1000, what's the saving? A few grand? Fairly insignificant I would have thought.

+2 less people on salary for having to manage the tires and remove the blankets?

Additionally it will increase on track overtaking, since it will take 1-2 laps for people coming out of the pits to get heat in the tires. I have hoped for removal of the blankets for years for that reason, never mind the potential cost cuts.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by stedevil

+2 less people on salary for having to manage the tires and remove the blankets?

Additionally it will increase on track overtaking, since it will take 1-2 laps for people coming out of the pits to get heat in the tires. I have hoped for removal of the blankets for years for that reason, never mind the potential cost cuts.

Well, I think the people are there anyway (you still need tyre management, and the blanket removal could be done/is by any one of the existing pit crew.

However, the overtaking thing is relevant. Should lead to loads more accidents on the first corner after the pits

[duke_toaster]

The bit I underlined was that it didn't apply to cost capped teams.

[awrb]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

The bit I underlined was that it didn't apply to cost capped teams.

Sorry, it was me that misread it then. Still want to see my one wheel drive car though.

[Sodemo]

A 4WD drive car would pretty much mean that there would be very few mistakes made by the driver, or at least, mistakes would be less noticable.

A 4WD car would also totally dominate in the wet, anyone remember the Audi A4 Quattro's from the Super Touring era?

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

A 4WD drive car would pretty much mean that there would be very few mistakes made by the driver, or at least, mistakes would be less noticable.

A 4WD car would also totally dominate in the wet, anyone remember the Audi A4 Quattro's from the Super Touring era?

Yep. A friend of mine used to race them in Aus

[Andrew2001]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

A 4WD drive car would pretty much mean that there would be very few mistakes made by the driver, or at least, mistakes would be less noticable.

A 4WD car would also totally dominate in the wet, anyone remember the Audi A4 Quattro's from the Super Touring era?

I was thinking of the Nissan GT-Rs in the Australian Touring Car Champs in the early 90s, fantastic machines.

I agree with banishing refueling, back to square one (they took refueling from the game in '05, and nothing changed).

[P38 in workshop]

What a mess.How can you expect to explain that the cars on the grid are competing to different sets of rules?There is also the matter of the FIA twisting arms to persuade competitors to enter my the end of May.It would be wonderful if FOTA members collectively insisted that they intended to think about it for a bit longer,say until September.Before the controlling tendencies of the FIA became quite so pronounced,it used to be the case that entries had to be submitted by late November and I can recall several instances where drivers were not confirmed until several weeks into the new year.