[FIA GT Race] FIA GT Rnd 3: Bucharest 19-20 May 2007

[Bramzel]

I do understand despite not being a racer, that point is nonsense. I completely understand your frustration as I already said, I just don't think it's correct to out that frustration on a forum in such a way. It's not the first time the GT2 frontrunners run in trouble with GT1 backmarkers and it most certainly not the last time. I remember a couple of times in 2004 where the Freisinger Porsches were annoyed by the Vipers from Zwaans, on shorter tracks such as Oschersleben and Valencia. It's just something you get with multi-class racing, it's the same with LMP1/LMP2.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

I think you should give a bit more credit to those guys. After all they have just as much right on space on the track as you, and on top of that most of them aren't amateurs at all, but people who've been around a much longer time already than you. So a bit more respect would be on it's place here in my opinion, despite the frustrations they may cause you on the track.

Yes and just look at the drivers in the citation cup! As you point out most of them have been around for much longer than Sean, however they havent achieved anything like the ammount that Sean has IMO. How many of the drivers in the citation cup have won any sort of major Championship or raced at Le Mans? None that I can think of at the moment. Sean on the other hand is the reigning FIA GT3 Champion and had it not been for some bad luck on Leo's part he could well be leading the GT2 Championship right now.

I see no real reason why the citation cup cars shoudnt let the GT2 front runners past if the GT2 cars can go that little bit faster, they arent competing with one another after all, it doesent make any differnce in the points standings if a GT2 car finishes ahead of them or not. It is all down to ego at the end of the day. The citation cup cars should be allowed to have their own race by all means, but at the expense of the GT2 front runners Championship? I think not.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

I do understand despite not being a racer, that point is nonsense. I completely understand your frustration as I already said, I just don't think it's correct to out that frustration on a forum in such a way. It's not the first time the GT2 frontrunners run in trouble with GT1 backmarkers and it most certainly not the last time. I remember a couple of times in 2004 where the Freisinger Porsches were annoyed by the Vipers from Zwaans, on shorter tracks such as Oschersleben and Valencia. It's just something you get with multi-class racing, it's the same with LMP1/LMP2.

Yes but now the situation is differnt, the GT1 cars that are getting in the way now arent the same as the ones that were in 2004 - they are racing in the citation cup, not the main GT1 Championship. True on the odd ocassion in the past a NGT car was battling it out with a GT car but that was a rare occurance. Now with the rules as they are however it seems to me to be far more likely that this sort of problem will happen between the citation cup cars and the leading GT2 cars. That really isnt fair on the GT2 runners who are after all racing for the GT2 championship. The citation cup is really just for amatuers as has been pointed out.

[JorritVD]

Originally Posted by Sean Edwards

So what if they have been round longer? That should mean that they are faster. They are amateurs or gentlemen drivers and something needs to be done to make them faster, as I have no interest in being held up by them when I am leading GT2.

You will never understand what I mean because you are not in the position, You probably don’t even race your self... You can't imagine how frustrating it is, when I build a 1-2 second lead from Kirkaldy (not easy) and then get held up by a citation cup car going wide and blocking me again and again.

Hopefully in Bucharest, they will be even slower and we will be ahead of them anyway.

There is maybee a solution. I don't know for sure but the CC drive with sort of normal tires. the GT1 and GT2 with development tires.
That's why maybee the CC are going faster on the straight and slower in the corner. And I believe I have read that the GT2 997 Porsche has the same tires as the GT1 cars, so the GT2 can have about the same speed in the corners as a gt1 and the CC goes much slower.

[Francesco]

biagi will be partnered by Gollin and not by Bartels.... via racingworld.it

[Hazard]

Reports say the PSI Corvette will be there, but Hines & Peter won't be

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Hazard

Reports say the PSI Corvette will be there, but Hines & Peter won't be

According pitstop.tv and DSC PSI will not race in Bucharest.

[Splendid Cat]

Originally Posted by Sean Edwards

So what if they have been round longer? That should mean that they are faster. They are amateurs or gentlemen drivers and something needs to be done to make them faster, as I have no interest in being held up by them when I am leading GT2.

You will never understand what I mean because you are not in the position, You probably don’t even race your self... You can't imagine how frustrating it is, when I build a 1-2 second lead from Kirkaldy (not easy) and then get held up by a citation cup car going wide and blocking me again and again.

Hopefully in Bucharest, they will be even slower and we will be ahead of them anyway.

Goodness me, you sound like Nigel Mansell. Bless you...

[The359]

Don't the GT1 guys feel the same about GT2 cars when lapping? It is multi-class racing, you can't just expect everyone out of your way...

[SALEEN S7R]

The differnce between the GT1 and GT2 cars though is that the GT1 and GT2 classes are proper championships, not like the citation cup which is really just a category to make up the numbers. IMO of course.

[Dani Filth]

Citation Cup cars are GT1 class cars .. so proper championship cars .. just check the entry list
http://www.fiagt.com/results.php

[SALEEN S7R]

The citation cup cars are GT1 cars yes, but old GT1 cars that are really no longer competitve on the international stage. There is no chance that you will ever see a citation cup car in the GT1 class at Le Mans. Why? Because they are too slow pure and simple and they would probably be beaten by the GT2 front runners. Im not saying they arent GT1 cars, they are, they just arent competitve front running cars that you would normally see racing in the ALMS or FIA GT championship (with a couple of exceptions like the MC12) normally which is why they are racing in the citation cup class. And remember they race in the Citation cup which is a seperate Championship so as I said they arent racing for the main Championships which are GT1 and GT2.

[Dani Filth]

we won't see MC12s at LeMans. . but not because they're old or slow .. in fact . if i remember correctly .. an MC12 won the last race at Silverstone
not to mention the C5R ..

[SALEEN S7R]

Yes I made a mistake regarding the MC12 and as you can see have corrected it. Regarding the C5R's though, the C5R's in the main Championship that are performing well are 2004 spec C5R's. The cars racing in the citation cup are much older versions of the C5R and are signifcantly slower than the 2004 models.

[Sean Edwards]

The citation cup is eligible for old and new GT1 cars. It is not a part of the main GT1 championship and is not eligible for points in the main championship. Citation cup has it's own championship, with it's own prizes and does not compete in all 10 rounds of the FIA GT with us...

It is a championship ONLY for amature drivers or gentlemen drivers. It is Stephan's way of trying to make the GT1 grid big enough, so that the FIA GT can become a world championship.

He expected them to be in between GT1 and GT2, but as you can see most of them are in fact behind GT2 and a few mixing it with us in GT2, which is the annoying part.

And no, it's not the same as GT1 car lapping us in GT2 because we actually make it easy for them to lap us, as we are experienced and good drivers. But with novices and gentlemen driver in citation, they often don’t use their mirrors and make big mistakes and nearly crash into us or block us. Anyway, I don't really expect you guys to understand, because your not racing, so I guess I am wasting my time to a degree trying to explain it....

What really needs to happen, is Ratel to allow the citation cars to run better tyres and then maybe they will be faster than us in GT2…

[TheNewBob]

What makes you think people here don't race? Can see your issue, but everyone else in GT2 has to put up with the same thing, so is it just a problem you've had or is everyone in the class complaining about it?

The drivers will get better, they just need a little time and for people to be patient with them. Yes, you may have a championship to fight for but with the Citation Cup to play for, so do they. Perhaps in Bucharest you might not come across them at all? I guess we'll soon find out after this weekend.

[tux]

unfortuneatly sean some of us dont race so we cant see it from your perspective but from a fans perspective it was nice to see more gt1 cars on the grid and very nice to see a 550 racing, even though it wasnt quite as fast as it shoulda been

anyway back to the topic on hand, anyone whos seen the track on DSC what does everyone think? i personally think the track looks great and cannot wait to watch the race on sunday

[neiltbag]

Originally Posted by Sean Edwards

And no, it's not the same as GT1 car lapping us in GT2 because we actually make it easy for them to lap us, as we are experienced and good drivers. But with novices and gentlemen driver in citation, they often don’t use their mirrors and make big mistakes and nearly crash into us or block us.

I can see that. I often experience a similar situation when doing track days on my motorcycle. I'm usually amongst the quickest in my group but I'm on a 600cc bike. Complete beginnners show up on 1000cc bikes, cornering super slow and unpredictably, then take off on the straights. I can't pass 'em on the straights because my bike is not as quick in a straight line, but get held up in corners. Passing in corners is always more risky, especially when you're passing people you don't trust. Sound familiar Sean?

[mirkob]

First pics:


I'm going to Bucarest on tomorrow afternoon; really I cant wait !!

[Dani Filth]

get an umbrella .. just to be safe .. no rain yet .. but they say it should come

[mirkob]

I know :-|

I just got an umbrella and a k-way !!

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by Sean Edwards

Anyway, I don't really expect you guys to understand, because your not racing, so I guess I am wasting my time to a degree trying to explain it....

You seem to ignore my previous statement so I'll just repeat it again; We are just as capable of normal thinking as racedrivers so we dó understand that situation. And I do understand it's frustrating. And I can imagine how annoyed you are. So please stop treating us like little children who don't know what they're talking about.

My previous point was mostly about you talking slightly disrespectless about your fellow drivers, and in my opinion thats not something a professional driver should do.

[Dani Filth]

GT3 is great .. so many cars .. sound is great ..
and 6 different makes in top 6 ..

[Dani Filth]

Originally Posted by mirkob

I know :-|

I just got an umbrella and a k-way !!

day was very cold .. didn't rain much .. but it does rain heavily now .
didn't see the sun today .. yesterday there were +35 degrees .. now (

[Red]

Meh, downpouring as we speak. Thunders and all. . I hope that the weather improves by tomorrow....